Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
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    Chester County, Pennsylvania
    (Chester County)
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    Default Fox Hunting in Deer Season

    I live in fox hunting country. Most of the land here is eased for fox hunting, I have no problem with them, except for those who run their hounds through here during the 2 weeks of deer season. The locals don't do this, but a group from the Main Line area does. These people are generally OK and respectful, but running their dogs here during this 2 weeks triggers me. Their hounds scared off a herd I had been watching come closer for almost an hour last week. Am I the asshole? I'm killing deer that destroy our crops and am eating them. The fox hunters rarely kill a fox, but I'm OK with that 50 weeks a year.

    The hunt that came through today had people wearing "Pinks" (red coats) on a Thursday. WTF is wrong with them? Around here, you can only wear Pinks on Tuesday, and only then if you are grandfathered in under rules I don't understand.
    Ya can't argue with figures. Two half nuthins is a whole nuthin.

  2. #2
    Join Date
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    Berks County, Pennsylvania
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    Default Re: Fox Hunting in Deer Season

    Are you referring to horse mounted fox hunting? You say they rarely kill a fox. When they do, how? Maybe they're not actually 'hunting' fox, but just 'running' them, because you can't 'hunt' fox during regular deer season. What 'law' allows them to kill a fox in any manner other than as outlined in PA game law? Problem with public lands.

    From PA regs:

    Exception 1 – During the Regular Firearms Deer Season, it is unlawful to take
    or attempt to take other wild birds or mammals, except game birds on
    regulated hunting grounds, migratory waterfowl, coyotes,* feral swine,
    wild boar and bears.
    Last edited by esh21167; December 7th, 2017 at 07:49 PM.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
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    Beautiful, Pennsylvania
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    Default Re: Fox Hunting in Deer Season

    Quote Originally Posted by Gripsafety View Post
    I live in fox hunting country. Most of the land here is eased for fox hunting, I have no problem with them, except for those who run their hounds through here during the 2 weeks of deer season. The locals don't do this, but a group from the Main Line area does. These people are generally OK and respectful, but running their dogs here during this 2 weeks triggers me. Their hounds scared off a herd I had been watching come closer for almost an hour last week. Am I the asshole? I'm killing deer that destroy our crops and am eating them. The fox hunters rarely kill a fox, but I'm OK with that 50 weeks a year.

    The hunt that came through today had people wearing "Pinks" (red coats) on a Thursday. WTF is wrong with them? Around here, you can only wear Pinks on Tuesday, and only then if you are grandfathered in under rules I don't understand.
    I hunted throughout Chester county and parts of Delco (believe it or not, there was open land) as a kid. The only hunting during deer season was on private property that didn't allow others to hunt it. Generally we only hunted on Sundays during that period for fear of a hound being shot and the limited private, exclusive lands large enough to support the activity.. Not sure who the mainline group would be, but the local club needs to give permission for them to hunt their area. Wearing of the pink (or pinque, or Scarlet depending on the club) has strict rules as to who, but each club decides things like when they are to be worn. As for the term "hunt", in the United States, the goal is to chase the fox until it goes to ground, and then find another to chase. It is very rare for a kill to occur, generally only a sick fox, and the kill is by the hounds. Clubs work to avoid that as again the goal is the chase, and the fox get better and better at leading the hounds as the season goes on.

    So short story, that group is rude and a little crazy to have their hounds out during deer season. Clubs strive to be good neighbors so lands remains open to them.

    ETA: this is based on my xx year old memory, so I could be wrong. I would only admit that to a group of strangers.
    Last edited by TotinMama; December 7th, 2017 at 09:18 PM.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
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    Chester County, Pennsylvania
    (Chester County)
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    Default Re: Fox Hunting in Deer Season

    Quote Originally Posted by esh21167 View Post
    Are you referring to horse mounted fox hunting? You say they rarely kill a fox. When they do, how? Maybe they're not actually 'hunting' fox, but just 'running' them, because you can't 'hunt' fox during regular deer season. What 'law' allows them to kill a fox in any manner other than as outlined in PA game law? Problem with public lands.

    From PA regs:

    Exception 1 – During the Regular Firearms Deer Season, it is unlawful to take
    or attempt to take other wild birds or mammals, except game birds on
    regulated hunting grounds, migratory waterfowl, coyotes,* feral swine,
    wild boar and bears.
    Yes, this is horse mounted fox hunting as described by TotinMama in her post. The local club breeds their hounds for scent only. I have no idea what the PGC rules are, but I would guess that they allow whatever the tradition is. This has been going on here since the days of William Penn.
    Ya can't argue with figures. Two half nuthins is a whole nuthin.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
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    Levittown, Pennsylvania
    (Bucks County)
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    Default Re: Fox Hunting in Deer Season

    10% of hunters get a deer. A few have their area well reconned and generally score in the same way each year. Others reduce the odds with good assessments of the sign. For many, they take a spot and hope, figuring this is woods and deer live in woods.

    Still hunting works, but contains an element of uncertainty. Some put on a drive to move deer out of their hides and into posted hunters.

    I would view the fox hunting activity like a drive. Be in an area where the hunt may send deer your way.

    I shot my biggest rack/buck thanks to it being driven to me by a couple of loose beagles. The dogs had tags and were friendly. There was no way I was going to harm them. In fact, I petted them and gave them the liver and said "nice doggie. Nice doggie".

    Try to turn what's happening to your advantage.

    Or, from your description, you may have a case for interfering with a hunter.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
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    Chester County, Pennsylvania
    (Chester County)
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    Default Re: Fox Hunting in Deer Season

    Quote Originally Posted by TotinMama View Post
    I hunted throughout Chester county and parts of Delco (believe it or not, there was open land) as a kid. The only hunting during deer season was on private property that didn't allow others to hunt it. Generally we only hunted on Sundays during that period for fear of a hound being shot and the limited private, exclusive lands large enough to support the activity.. Not sure who the mainline group would be, but the local club needs to give permission for them to hunt their area. Wearing of the pink (or pinque, or Scarlet depending on the club) has strict rules as to who, but each club decides things like when they are to be worn. As for the term "hunt", in the United States, the goal is to chase the fox until it goes to ground, and then find another to chase. It is very rare for a kill to occur, generally only a sick fox, and the kill is by the hounds. Clubs work to avoid that as again the goal is the chase, and the fox get better and better at leading the hounds as the season goes on.

    So short story, that group is rude and a little crazy to have their hounds out during deer season. Clubs strive to be good neighbors so lands remains open to them.

    ETA: this is based on my xx year old memory, so I could be wrong. I would only admit that to a group of strangers.
    Thanks TM. The hunt last week definitely started in the local club's area; I'm not sure about the one yesterday. As I'm sure you know, they don't always know where these things will go. Our land is open to them, as is all of the neighboring land. The local club does not ride during the 2 weeks of firearm season. They give us a schedule in advance every month.

    After a night's sleep, this isn't that big of a deal. I will talk to the people from the local club and see if they can let us know when others are permitted to run in our area. I can't hunt deer every day for 2 weeks, so if I know when the "bad' days are it is really no problem.

    The local club treats us like royalty. They throw pretty lavish parties for landowners and their families in the summer and around Christmas. Our kids really love those parties, as they have kid friendly activities and games.. We meet and talk to the riders and the huntsman, and they listen. These are good people who appreciate what they have.
    Ya can't argue with figures. Two half nuthins is a whole nuthin.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
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    Beautiful, Pennsylvania
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    Default Re: Fox Hunting in Deer Season

    There isn't enough open land anymore. The Chester county clubs know they have it good.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Location
    Birchrunville, Pennsylvania
    (Chester County)
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    Default Re: Fox Hunting in Deer Season

    Back in the mid 80s when I lived in Birchrunville (still do but different house) the hounds would come through the property all the time. Scared the shit out of my cats but the dogs paid them no mind. As time went on the hunts stopped for reasons unknown to me but lots of people complained so guess they go somewhere else.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
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    Chester County, Pennsylvania
    (Chester County)
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    Default Re: Fox Hunting in Deer Season

    Quote Originally Posted by Bang View Post
    10% of hunters get a deer. A few have their area well reconned and generally score in the same way each year. Others reduce the odds with good assessments of the sign. For many, they take a spot and hope, figuring this is woods and deer live in woods.

    Still hunting works, but contains an element of uncertainty. Some put on a drive to move deer out of their hides and into posted hunters.

    I would view the fox hunting activity like a drive. Be in an area where the hunt may send deer your way.

    I shot my biggest rack/buck thanks to it being driven to me by a couple of loose beagles. The dogs had tags and were friendly. There was no way I was going to harm them. In fact, I petted them and gave them the liver and said "nice doggie. Nice doggie".

    Try to turn what's happening to your advantage.

    Or, from your description, you may have a case for interfering with a hunter.
    I know the land and deer here pretty well. I was watching deer in an open feeding area when they were spooked by the hounds. I also have marshier areas where the deer are during different times of the day. I can easily adjust my hunting time and area if I know what's going on.

    As I said to TM, this does not seem to be as big of a deal today as it did yesterday. We can communicate and work this out. I knew and accepted the tradition when I moved in here, and they understand the management of open land in this area.
    Ya can't argue with figures. Two half nuthins is a whole nuthin.

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