Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #11
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    Default Re: What is your self defense ammo?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hodgie View Post
    At least 3 a day and 4 on Sundays that's if it's a good day.
    Seriously. All these magic designer bullets are hyped by the advertising dept after spending considerable money on design and manufacturing , what else are they going to say. Every bullet design since the basic hollow point is touted to be the deadliest ever. Gelatin blocks are used to show perfectly expanded mushrooms. They don't have clothing , bones , muscle , cartilage , etc. I'd rather base my opinion on actual street shootings. People have run away after taking 5 .45ACP Hydra-Shoks in the chest , and some drop dead after a single .25cal 50gr FMJ. The 115gr 9mm Win Silvertip had an excellent track record till the FBI shoot-out in Miami and that bullet worked perfectly and did a hell of a lot of internal damage.
    My doc says the worst wounds he ever saw in the ER were from Glaser's. A big ragged but shallow wound(s) can still drop a bad guys blood pressure to where he's got no fight. The old Marshall-Sanow reports of actual shootings were good in their day. Some writers like Mas Ayoob still base their recommendations on actual shootings and autopsies. Hell , I'd be happy if the still did the old Strasborg goat tests.

    To hear someone who hasn't shot anyone say what's effective and what isn't , well , , it's just an opinion.
    Last edited by abner13; December 4th, 2017 at 09:21 PM.
    I don't speak English , I talk American!

  2. #12
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    Default Re: What is your self defense ammo?

    Quote Originally Posted by abner13 View Post
    Seriously. All these magic designer bullets are hyped by the advertising dept after spending considerable money on design and manufacturing , what else are they going to say. Every bullet design since the basic hollow point is touted to be the deadliest ever. Gelatin blocks are used to show perfectly expanded mushrooms. They don't have clothing , bones , muscle , cartilage , etc. I'd rather base my opinion on actual street shootings. People have run away after taking 5 .45ACP Hydra-Shoks in the chest , and some drop dead after a single .25cal 50gr FMJ. The 115gr 9mm Win Silvertip had an excellent track record till the FBI shoot-out in Miami and that bullet worked perfectly and did a hell of a lot of internal damage.
    My doc says the worst wounds he ever saw in the ER were from Glaser's. A big ragged but shallow wound(s) can still drop a bad guys blood pressure to where he's got no fight. The old Marshall-Sanow reports of actual shootings were good in their day. Some writers like Mas Ayoob still base their recommendations on actual shootings and autopsies. Hell , I'd be happy if the still did the old Strasborg goat tests.

    To hear someone who hasn't shot anyone say what's effective and what isn't , well , , it's just an opinion.
    What I did is what many others do and did as much research that can be done on the old interwebs from objective sources that didn't include the manufacture or the manufacture providing the product.

    Shooting the Bull.com did an entire series dedicated to testing 9mm self defense ammunition adhering to all FBI testing protocols (yes we all know the gel does not simulate the human anonymity but it provides a consistent medium to compare) and out of a large amount of popular loads the HST was the most consistant with repeatable results in penetration and expansion.

    https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...DMgd-w4Yozc27i

    I also happen to have several LE members in my family on the federal and state/local as well as a long time friend who run's another message fourm who has been in active gun fights as a LEO and I take his opinions based on experience to be very valid when it comes to SD and the latest and greatest in bullet performance.


    WWW.SKSBOARDS.COM is the site he owns.
    Last edited by Hodgie; December 4th, 2017 at 09:38 PM.

  3. #13
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    Tioga County, Pennsylvania
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    Default Re: What is your self defense ammo?

    I buck conventional present day wisdom and go with a 124g Speer TMJ 9mm round for most things. I live rurally and I reckon any self defense fight would be at home, on the land or around a car, so that's my main choice.

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
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    NEPA, Pennsylvania
    (Wyoming County)
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    Default Re: What is your self defense ammo?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hodgie View Post
    What I did is what many others do and did as much research that can be done on the old interwebs from objective sources that didn't include the manufacture or the manufacture providing the product.

    Shooting the Bull.com did an entire series dedicated to testing 9mm self defense ammunition adhering to all FBI testing protocols (yes we all know the gel does not simulate the human anonymity but it provides a consistent medium to compare) and out of a large amount of popular loads the HST was the most consistant with repeatable results in penetration and expansion.

    https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...DMgd-w4Yozc27i

    I also happen to have several LE members in my family on the federal and state/local as well as a long time friend who run's another message fourm who has been in active gun fights as a LEO and I take his opinions based on experience to be very valid when it comes to SD and the latest and greatest in bullet performance.


    WWW.SKSBOARDS.COM is the site he owns.
    ^x2 which led me to the Lehigh Defense extreme penetrator for .380 & Winchester 147gn train & defend for short barrel 9mm's (3"+/-).

    for my .40 & 10mm I roll my own with Hornady XTPs

  5. #15
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    Default Re: What is your self defense ammo?

    Quote Originally Posted by ExFlyinguy View Post
    ^x2 which led me to the Lehigh Defense extreme penetrator for .380 & Winchester 147gn train & defend for short barrel 9mm's (3"+/-).

    for my .40 & 10mm I roll my own with Hornady XTPs

    Same here with the LHD extreme penetrator in the cold months. I use the precision on XTP HP in the summer on the rare occasion I carry a .380 pocket pistol.

  6. #16
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    Richboro, Pennsylvania
    (Bucks County)
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    Default Re: What is your self defense ammo?

    Handloaded Federal 147 grain HST loaded between standard and +p velocities.

    Before anyone comments on why I will go to jail if I shoot a criminal with a handloaded round all I can say is I already made my decision. I will not even think of carrying any round that I have not shot 200-300 rounds (in each pistol) without a problem. And I don't want to invest $200-500 per pistol to find out the answer.

  7. #17
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    Nov 2017
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    Cleveland, Mississippi
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    Default Re: What is your self defense ammo?

    I also carry Federal HST 124 gr +P in my Glock 19.

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
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    North Penn area, Pennsylvania
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    Default Re: What is your self defense ammo?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hodgie View Post
    What I did is what many others do and did as much research that can be done on the old interwebs from objective sources that didn't include the manufacture or the manufacture providing the product.

    Shooting the Bull.com did an entire series dedicated to testing 9mm self defense ammunition adhering to all FBI testing protocols (yes we all know the gel does not simulate the human anonymity but it provides a consistent medium to compare) and out of a large amount of popular loads the HST was the most consistant with repeatable results in penetration and expansion.

    https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...DMgd-w4Yozc27i

    I also happen to have several LE members in my family on the federal and state/local as well as a long time friend who run's another message fourm who has been in active gun fights as a LEO and I take his opinions based on experience to be very valid when it comes to SD and the latest and greatest in bullet performance.


    WWW.SKSBOARDS.COM is the site he owns.
    OK , point taken. But many bullets recovered from actual shootings fail to show the optimum expansion shown in ballistic gel. Certainly results will vary from a 112lb crackhead 'skinny' to a 325lb steroid pumped and meth crazed biker.

    Just like a Remington 120gr PSP .25 cal Core-Lokt .25-06 might be a death ray on a 125lb whitetail , but not a 500lb black bear.
    I don't speak English , I talk American!

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
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    Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
    (Allegheny County)
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    Default Re: What is your self defense ammo?

    I don't remember. It came in a black box... or green. I don't remember.

    It's been in there for a long time.

  10. #20
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    Default Re: What is your self defense ammo?

    Quote Originally Posted by Emptymag View Post
    I don't remember. It came in a black box... or green. I don't remember.

    It's been in there for a long time.

    You sure it didn't look like this?

    They come in black too.

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