Questions about converting to select fire legalities.

[Thrillz]

Sorry if this has been brought up before or if its "common" knowledge, but I just wanna be sure I know whats what, even though itll probably never matter to me.

Ive never really given any thought to owning a selective fire firearm, so I dont know the full legalities of it. I thought I knew a little about it, but recently when I went about buying the parts for an AR build, someone kinda confused me. I went to a local shop to buy a lower receiver and while looking at a couple and talking with the guy who seemed pretty knowledgeable about it all (the shop also sells suppressors, SBRs, and the like so I assumed they would know a thing or two about it) he mentioned how the lower I was looking at was milled for auto components so if I ever decided to convert it it would be easier and I wouldnt have to buy a new one or mill the existing one out.

Now I was under the impression that for a regular civilian to own an auto rifle that it had to have been made prior to the "ban" in 1984 (or whatever year) and to make new ones you had to have some kind of manufacturers license or something (totally unsure of what its called). I mentioned that to him and he kinda chuckled and said it was the same as for a suppressor, just doing the ATF check, paperwork and tax stamp. Kinda blew me away because that just doesnt sound right at all, but I wasnt gonna argue the point. At the very least I thought that you had to have a "pre-ban" lower receiver since thats the firearm in the ATFs eyes, which would probably run into the $10k range easy, and then maybe its as "simple" as the tax stamp, but hes telling me I could do it with the standard lower I just bought.

I looked into getting SBRs and suppressors so I know the deal with those, but I never gave a thought to owning a select fire so I know dick all about it. But what that guy was telling me just didnt sound right.

So I guess the tl;dr version is, what are the legalities of converting a regular semi auto AR made in this decade to a select fire AR? Is it as simple as a tax stamp and buying a new fire control group, or is that guy working in a Class 3 shop full of shit?

[marinville]

You were right. It can't be done legally. The man you spoke to is either ignorant of the law, or simply doesn't give a shit.

[ExFlyinguy]

I honestly don't know the particulars, but I think I read that having a lower with the 3rd pin hole is a big no-no unless it's a pre 86 ban "registered lower"?

I think I also read that there are some Colt lowers that have more material in the trigger well that most lowers today don't have?

On the other hand I thought there was such a thing as just a registered trigger pack?

Unfortunately that's about the extent of my select-fire knowledge goes and I'm not even sure how accurate that is.

[Thrillz]

I honestly don't know the particulars, but I think I read that having a lower with the 3rd pin whole is a big no-no unless it's a pre 86 ban "registered lower"?

I think I also read that there are some Colt lowers that have more material in the trigger well that most lowers today don't have?

On the other hand I thought there was such a thing as just a registered trigger pack?

Unfortunately that's about the extent of my select-fire knowledge goes and I'm not even sure how accurate that is.

Well the lower I have doesnt have the 3rd pin hole. Didnt even think of that at all til you mentioned it. What I meant by "milled for auto components" is the inside of the lower has more material milled out to presumably accept the select fire components. I dont even know how true that is, maybe its just a sales technique to sell more of "their" lowers to people who dont know better. I bought it because it looked and felt like better quality than the others they had. Like I said, I know dick all about ARs (prior to this build anyway), select fire, and rifles in general. Prior to this AR Ive only owned 1 other rifle, a Marlin .22lr. All Ive ever owned besides those are handguns.

This pic shows what I mean by the milling. The one on the right is the type I have.

[marinville]

I honestly don't know the particulars, but I think I read that having a lower with the 3rd pin whole is a big no-no unless it's a pre 86 ban "registered lower"?

I think I also read that there are some Colt lowers that have more material in the trigger well that most lowers today don't have?

On the other hand I thought there was such a thing as just a registered trigger pack?

Unfortunately that's about the extent of my select-fire knowledge goes and I'm not even sure how accurate that is.

My understanding is that registered drop in auto sears are as expensive as registered m16 lowers. Which is to say, practically unaffordable for most regular folk.

[WCMG]

In most states including PA, purchasing a legal machine gun is the exact same process as buying a suppressor or SBR. Pay for it, submit a Form 4, wait 6 to 12 months, take it home.

Cilivians can only own pre May 1986 manufactured MG's that are considered "transferable". There are types of pre-86 machine guns that cannot be owned by civilians.

Machine guns can vary in price from $5k for a MAC-11 to $50k for an M60 to everything in between. M16's typically going around $18k +-$2k.

To manufacture a machine gun, you must be a 07/02 FFL/SOT or 10/02 FFL/SOT. Cilivians cannot manufacture an MG. Total yearly fees for a 07/02 FFL/SOT are around $2,800 not including insurance or business licenses. That $2,800 is just for the ATF and DOJ fees. If you manufacture a MG as a 07/02 and give up your FFL/SOT, you must either destroy the MG or sell it beforehand. There are no exceptions to this rule, so unless you keep paying to keep your 07/02 every year, all the toys gotta go.

[buckengr]

Yep. To add to what has already been said, no new conversions allowed.

The only thing that additional milling allows for in a so-called "low-shelf" lower is the installation of a REGISTERED drop in auto sear (RDIAS) -- key word being Registered, meaning built and registered with ATF as a machine gun conversion device prior to May 19, 1986 when the Hughes Amendment went into effect. This is how you can very occasionally see regular people with "new" looking lowers that have legal select fire capability. (There are also Registered "Lightning Links" that can be used with newer lowers, but they have their own share of limitations.)

As marinville mentioned, prices for a RDIAS are north of that for a registered receiver M16, so pretty much cost prohibitive for just about everyone.

Repeal the unconstitutional Hughes Amendment!

[Nate7667]

There really isn't a whole lot of machine guns out there that are out of the normal guys reach, save an M134, a true transferable M249(not the M11/9-M249 lol), and maybe a few other rare birds.

Some peolpe have motor homes, campers, Harleys, take multi thousand dollar vacations, additional car(s) than a primary vehicle.....dont want a machingun bad enough. And there is nothing wrong with that. Just saying some people save up, work hard, and plan to buy what they want to enjoy.
Want a select fire weapon to shoot and enjoy instead of an $80K sleeping bus you use 5 times a year, its available to you. And it will be worth more when you sell it.

[wanneroo]

Basically when you start talking suppressors, short barreled rifles, destructive devices and select fire machine guns, it's things that missteps with can land you in federal prison. Hence you need to be well educated and if you don't even know the date the machine gun ban went into effect, it tells me you need to hit the books and start reading up on your own if these are things you are interested in.

One good resource is Small Arms Review which was a magazine founded by NFA dealers and which over 20 years has published much information on said items. They have an archive of older articles on their website and for a while now they've had a monthly column written by two firearms lawyers that breaks down and explains much of these federal laws we have to deal with.

[Emptymag]

Every time this thread gets posted to, I picture red lights flashing, and buzzers sounding in an underground, secure location, near D.C., with guys in dark suits scrambling to gather info...