What is the law?,,, SBR vs. Pistol.

[BIA_Design]

new to NFA so an easy question..... I'm sure this is here somewhere, but didn't know where to look.....

If a manufacture sells a 'pistol" version of a rifle, this means a stock can never be added correct? there is no stamp that can be purchased to allows a pistol version to have a collapsable stock added.

now.

IF one was to take a rifle version and make it pistol length, with a collapsable stock, this would be considered a SBR and subject to a 200 tax stamp....

IS this think correct?

Gun in question would be a Sig 556 pistol vs. a Sig 556 Rifle.

[sluggie24]

You can do it either way to make an SBR. After you get the stamp you can either add a stock to a pistol or put a shorter barrel on a rifle.

[Stack]

This was the advice I was given when I was building my first SBR:

"You can legally assemble your own pistol, using a virgin lower that has never had a buttstock attached.

You CAN NOT turn a rifle into a pistol without an approved Form 1, but you can make a non-NFA pistol from a virgin lower.

You can also legally turn any pistol into a rifle."


While building mine, I parked my shorty upper on a pistol lower while my forms were approved. Once approved, I switched over to a lower with a stock. Makes things safe / simple.

I understand that your case is different since you are talking about a manufactured model but you can get a stamp for that pistol lower. By the same token, if you bought it as a pistol and added a proper length barrel, you could also legally convert it to a rifle as long as your OAL is good.

Hope this makes sense. To the pros: please correct me if I am wrong on any of these points.

[BIA_Design]

thanks for the replies......

I'm still getting confused... in the above post you say you can legally turn any pistol into a rifle, but I found this post in another thread which seams to support that statement, posted by Gunlawyer001:

"There's some question about whether you can buy a pistol, or a virgin receiver that you make into a pistol, then turn it into a legal rifle (you can), then turn it back into a pistol yourself (you can't). The conservative view is that making it into a rifle prevents you from then making it into a pistol, since it's clearly a "rifle" once you add the buttstock and long barrel, and you can't make a pistol out of a rifle.

The risky view is that you can swap back and forth, under some theory that you're doing the conversion yourself and that's different than changing a rifle that someone else built, or else it's magically "always a pistol" even when you make it into a rifle. These people find support for this theory in the Thompson/Center case, however the Thompson/Center case says no such thing. That case answers the question of whether an unassembled kit is constructively an SBR, it says nothing about whether you can swap back and forth once it's assembled."

But does that mean that it could never have the stock again removed. legally speaking?

I'm looking for the ability to create the most versatile platform....

I would love to have a Pistol base, have the ability to add a folder, or standard 556 style collapsable if the mood struck me, but also be able to remove them all together again.

[sluggie24]

Once you get the SBR stamp I think you can do whatever you want with it. The firearm becomes NFA and stays so even if you change it back to what it looked like before. If you get the 556 pistol and SBR it and then from time to time take the stock off it SHOULD still be legal. It would not be considered a pistol however as it is still an SBR since it is registered as such.

Personally I think that 556 pistol with a side folding collapsable stock would be the hot ticket. No real need to take the stock off anyway.

[Kramer]

"If you get the 556 pistol and SBR it and then from time to time take the stock off it SHOULD still be legal. It would not be considered a pistol however as it is still an SBR since it is registered as such."

Yes you can make changes to barrel length and stocks (overall length) as long as it's not a permanent change.

[BIA_Design]

Personally I think that 556 pistol with a side folding collapsable stock would be the hot ticket. No real need to take the stock off anyway.

were def. on the same page here....

Found a guy selling on sigforum for $1450 so as long as he still has it,,,, I think it's coming this way!...

[Stack]

Just get the stamp ... they're fun to collect anyway

[GunLawyer001]

thanks for the replies......

I'm still getting confused... in the above post you say you can legally turn any pistol into a rifle, but I found this post in another thread which seams to support that statement, posted by Gunlawyer001:

"There's some question about whether you can buy a pistol, or a virgin receiver that you make into a pistol, then turn it into a legal rifle (you can), then turn it back into a pistol yourself (you can't). The conservative view is that making it into a rifle prevents you from then making it into a pistol, since it's clearly a "rifle" once you add the buttstock and long barrel, and you can't make a pistol out of a rifle.

The risky view is that you can swap back and forth, under some theory that you're doing the conversion yourself and that's different than changing a rifle that someone else built, or else it's magically "always a pistol" even when you make it into a rifle. These people find support for this theory in the Thompson/Center case, however the Thompson/Center case says no such thing. That case answers the question of whether an unassembled kit is constructively an SBR, it says nothing about whether you can swap back and forth once it's assembled."

But does that mean that it could never have the stock again removed. legally speaking?

I'm looking for the ability to create the most versatile platform....

I would love to have a Pistol base, have the ability to add a folder, or standard 556 style collapsable if the mood struck me, but also be able to remove them all together again.

There are 2 different worlds here. One involves a registered NFA weapon, which you can do pretty much whatever you wish with so far as stocks and barrel length (you're supposed to update ATF on changes).

The other is Title I, non-NFA pistols and rifles. It's always legal to add a 16" barrel and a buttstock to a pistol, as long as the resulting overall length is at least 26". It's not legal to make a pistol out of a rifle, if it then has an OAL under 26", or a barrel under 16". Whether your own conversion of a pistol into a rifle brings you within that rule, is disputed, but the safe approach is to treat it as a one-way conversion, once you've made it into a rifle you then have "a rifle".

[RyanM]

It's not legal to make a pistol out of a rifle, if it then has an OAL under 26", or a barrel under 16".

It may, may, may be legal to make a pistol out of a rifle, as long as it's an easily reversible change. The Supreme Court ruled, in ATF v. T/C, that you can take an Encore registered as a rifle and change it into a legal title I pistol configuration, provided that you keep the rifle hardware (I think), and that you didn't buy the gun as a rifle in order to evade the age restrictions on buying a handgun from an FFL. That may apply to upper swaps on other platforms, though you'd probably have to take the ATF to the Supreme Court again to know for sure.

I think they made that ruling, anyway. I tried to find the exact text, but reading all that legalese made my head hurt.

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/script...l=504&page=505