Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #1
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    Default Discussion: Point Blank "Self Defense" - or not?

    I searched like hell for this before posting, surprised to find it was not here.

    A person who allegedly shot and killed a 27-year-old man on Cedar Drive and was released from custody without charges is related to a Killeen Police Department employee, according to a KPD news release Friday.

    Police officials said the Texas Rangers were invited to assist in the investigation into the Sunday death of Curtis E. Shelley after the alleged shooter’s connection to a department employee was discovered.


    “In the interests of transparency, the Police Department has invited the Texas Rangers to review and assist in the progress of this investigation,” the release said.


    Officers responded to a shooting call at 2:10 p.m. Sunday in the 1000 block of Cedar Drive, according to Killeen police spokeswoman Ofelia Miramontez.


    Officers found Shelley with a gunshot wound. Shelley was taken to the Carl R. Darnall Army Medical Center at Fort Hood in critical condition and later died, police said.


    Police said the man who was questioned — whose name has still not been released by police because he was not charged with a crime — and Shelley have had “an ongoing dispute.”


    The two were involved in an argument when the man who police questioned fired a gun at Shelley, according to a news release.


    Shelley’s family shared a video on social media they say shows Shelley and the shooter circling each other in the middle of Cedar Drive before the individual fires a shotgun toward the face of the victim, who is standing roughly 10 feet away.


    The video appears to show the victim unarmed and acting aggressively toward the individual holding the weapon, who is dressed in a lime-green vest and frequently backing away from the victim before the shooting.


    KPD Cmdr. Erich Morsbach said Friday the department was aware of the video but did not verify its authenticity. Morsbach said the department was not investigating the incident as a murder and did not address rumors the weapon used was a sawed-off shotgun.


    Killeen police said the investigation was in the process of being turned over to the Bell County district attorney’s office.
    I find the video highly interesting, as tough as it is to watch. Be warned - the video shows a man being shot with a shotgun at only a few yards. While not bloody, it is graphic and disturbing, so watch at your own risk.

    I am made of questions. Why did the shooter have his shotgun on his shoulder in the first place, and why was he out of his pickup truck to begin with? Reports indicate an "ongoing dispute" between these two, so what was the nature of that, prior to the footage beginning? What were they arguing about in the actual video? Was Shelley just trying to "keep it real" with a guy who he perceived to be a threat just because he has a shotgun (not that it doesn't change the potential outcomes, obviously)? Was he threatening the guy that whole time?

    The body language of the guy who got blasted is that of predator, in my opinion. I'm not sure why the guy leveled his shotgun at Shelley, but it certainly didn't de-escalate the situation. Shelley bristled and closed the distance almost immediately, and it looks like the shooter is trying to back away and NOT have to shoot him. Shelley circles around the guy, while the shooter backs towards his truck. He even puts it down after Shelley creates some distance, but something about the way the argument continues to progress (stupid men and their wanting to have the last word, I'm sure) makes Shelley re-engage, this time, shifting his weight to the balls of his feet and lifting up the fronts of his shorts - a clear sign of aggression and posturing to attack. Mister Shotgun isn't going to just stand there and wait to be attacked and possibly lose control of the weapon - blam.

    Or at least, it's one possibility, just as valid as a guy with a shotgun who wanted to go all Purge on Shelley.

    What's your opinion?
    Junior

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Discussion: Point Blank "Self Defense" - or not?

    After only watching it once, and knowing nothing more than what I have SEEN, it looks like maybe he fired too soon.

    I do agree with the assessment of "predator" and this is a GOOD reminder to people that thinking that having a gun (or even displaying it) will make a criminal "run away" is foolish.
    That MAY happen - or like seen here, the bad guy just may not be that afraid of your gun and may see you as "weak" and unlikely to actually shoot - he may just decide to take your gun and shove it up your ass - or worse.
    I called to check my ZIP CODE!....DY-NO-MITE!!!

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Discussion: Point Blank "Self Defense" - or not?

    Looked like murder to me.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Discussion: Point Blank "Self Defense" - or not?

    Since we really don't know what was going on between the two I would have reservations about calling it a good shooting. If the guy who was shot was armed then maybe yes but if he wasn't I would have went for a lower shot. He was following the guy with the shotty and kept advancing on him with his bravado so he helped earn the reaction. Need more data to even come close to a conclusion.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Discussion: Point Blank "Self Defense" - or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by ViperGTS19801 View Post
    What's your opinion?
    Based on the video, my opinion is that there were two complete dumbasses in the middle of the street, no doubt arguing about some stupid shit. Either could have walked away at any time (or in the case of the pickup driver, never have gotten out of his car to begin with).

    I think it is too bad that they didn’t shoot and kill each other, ensuring no one else would have to encounter either of them.

    Questions I would ask, if I cared:

    1). What is the mentality of a person driving around with a big ass shot gun loaded up and ready to use?
    2). What is the mentality of someone who gets out of his car in the middle of the street to argue with someone?
    3). What is the mentality of someone who, upon having a shotgun pointed at him, continues being a dumbass?
    4). Why in the fuck can’t the person with the phone make a decent video?
    Last edited by free; November 22nd, 2017 at 11:16 AM.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Discussion: Point Blank "Self Defense" - or not?

    I'm mixed... Without knowing what created the situation, and what happened to cause the on-foot confrontation - it is hard to pass final judgement.

    One thing that leans towards justified is that the shooter backed away in most of the video, and the other person pursued. Only a crazy and/or violent person would pursue and approach a person pointing a gun at them, that creates a mindset that the visibly unarmed person has intent to cause harm.
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  7. #7
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    Default Re: Discussion: Point Blank "Self Defense" - or not?

    I would say the person who was shot shouldn't have continually engaged the man with the shotgun. I think he was either planning on taking the weapon from the man or he was daring the man to shoot him. Without speculating on what led up to the encounter I would say the outcome was reasonable.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Discussion: Point Blank "Self Defense" - or not?

    I’ll give the shooter benefit of doubt. Innocent unless proven guilty. Would opinions change if the shooter was female?

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Discussion: Point Blank "Self Defense" - or not?

    we dont know what lead to it. but lets say its the local meth dealer that got shot and the prior situation is his customers are always parking infront of the shooters house and words have been exchanged in the past. now just before the shooting the guy pulls up towards his house and a car is blocking the drive again words are exchanged the guy in white makes threats then the video picks up.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Discussion: Point Blank "Self Defense" - or not?

    If this is the one where the aggressive person was unarmed. Why didn't he hit the legs to stop his mobility, instead of taken his life?

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