Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #1
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    Exclamation This Sunday, Some Churchgoers May Choose to Pack Guns With Their Bibles

    http://wsj.com/articles/this-sunday-...les-1510488001


    As he does every Sunday, the Rt. Rev. Council Nedd II, an Anglican rector, will put on his collar and robes to offer Mass at his central Pennsylvania church. Now, he is considering wearing something else with his religious vestments: his handgun.

    As a Pennsylvania state constable, Dr. Nedd can bring his gun just about everywhere—to the grocery store, to the park and to synagogues and other houses of worship, where he often acts as security. His church was the one place where he went unarmed.

    “Weapons do not belong in church,” he said. But, as a bishop, he has “a responsibility to protect the flock,” he added.

    One week after a shooting at a Texas church left 26 dead and 20 more wounded, congregations gathering for worship around the country Sunday are once again facing the question of security. Long the last frontier where many gun owners went unarmed, the faithful are now considering whether they should bring firearms to their houses of worship as well.

    Many who live near Sutherland Springs, Texas, where last week’s shooting took place, said they didn’t bring their weapons into their houses of worship.

    Tomie Barker, who attends Christ Lutheran Church of Elm Creek in Seguin, Texas, about 15 miles north of Sutherland Springs, said her husband didn’t have the firearm he is licensed to carry on him last Sunday when their church was locked down following the shooting at the nearby First Baptist Church. But, she said, he plans to have it with him this Sunday.

    “Why would we take a gun to church? Church and school—we feel like we ought to be safe,” she said on Saturday, nearly a week after the shooting. “But he’s not leaving home without it now.”

    Ms. Barker, 60, thinks other worshipers will feel the same, and said she told her pastor that the church should probably make note of who is armed in case another emergency arises.

    “I’ve told everybody, I told my pastor: I’m not going to be a sitting duck or a fish in the barrel,” she said. “We know all about the whack-a-doodles and the copycats.”

    Houses of worship are among the softest of soft targets, with inherent missions and traditions emphasizing peace and welcoming. Churches, synagogues, mosques and Sikh temples have struggled to balance their desire to provide an open sanctuary for the community with security. In recent years, many houses of worship have installed cameras and hired armed guards.

    The Prestonwood Baptist Church in Plano, Texas, in response to the Sutherland Springs shooting, offered a free seminar on church security. Representatives from more than 300 churches signed up for the course within three days. Photo: Stewart F. House/Getty Images

    After the shooting last Sunday, Ken Paxton, the Texas attorney general, said churches needed armed protection.

    Another shooting is “going to happen again, so we need people in churches, either professional security or at least arming some of the parishioners,” he said in an interview on Fox News.

    Prestonwood Baptist Church, a megachurch in Plano, Texas, announced last week that it would be holding a free seminar on church security. Representatives from more than 300 churches, large and small, signed up within three days.

    With roughly 12,000 attendees at its services every Sunday, Prestonwood has armed security guards. Jack Graham, the church’s pastor, said the church had resisted putting in metal detectors so that the church would continue to feel welcoming, and didn’t allow open carry of firearms for the same reason. He suspects some congregants with concealed-carry permits do bring their firearms.

    “Frankly, it brings some comfort,” Dr. Graham said of the armed church members. “If there had been someone with a weapon in that little church, maybe that could have been prevented.”

    But not every house of worship can afford private security. Smaller churches are now considering arming the congregation or clergy.

    Tambria Read, a schoolteacher and chairwoman of the Sutherland Springs Historical Museum, owns a gun and supports people being able to carry them, but had always preferred to keep firearms out of religious spaces.

    “I’m not too crazy about guns in church—somebody could take the gun and do something,” said Ms. Read, 59, who sometimes worshiped at the First Baptist Church but wasn’t there last week. “Maybe somebody in a church needs a gun, someone strategic, but not everybody in a pew.”

    St. Alban’s Anglican Church in Pine Grove Mills, Pa., where Dr. Nedd is rector, has roughly 50 members, and no budget for private security.

    Until several years ago, the church was open 24 hours a day, with no locks on the doors. After a deadly shooting at the Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church in Charleston, S.C., last year, the St. Alban’s congregation discussed security measures. When a newcomer showed up, everyone eyed him warily. Dr. Nedd considered bringing his gun, but decided against it.

    Wendy Coulson, a 55-year-old member of St. Alban’s congregation, said she had never brought a gun to church before last year.

    Tambria Read, a schoolteacher and gun owner in Sutherland Springs, said she had always preferred to keep firearms out of religious spaces, but ‘maybe somebody in a church needs a gun, someone strategic.’ Photo: Tawnell D. Hobbs/The Wall Street Journal

    Then, one Sunday after the Charleston shooting, she was spiritually guided to bring her gun, she said. Ms. Coulson has a concealed carry permit, and didn’t tell anyone it was with her, she said. Though she hasn’t brought her gun since, having it that day made her feel better, she said.

    “The reality of the times is that, if I’m in church, I can’t be completely abandoned to my worship, because I have half an ear listening for a strange sound—that’s the unfortunate part of what we’re dealing with today,” said Ms. Coulson, an engineering consultant. “If somebody were to target our church, I definitely would feel more comfortable that somebody else had an opportunity to slow them down,” she added.

    Inez Howe, another parishioner, is from a house with “so many guns.” But her family, too, hasn’t brought them to church. She uses the guns largely for rattlesnakes, she said, adding that her husband, a devoted shooter and collector, doesn’t want to be in a position of using a gun to kill a person.

    Still, Ms. Howe would be more comfortable now if someone—“maybe the bishop”—would be armed in church.

    “I would never have even thought of a gun in church,” Ms. Howe, 74, said. “But if someone would walk in, I’d hope that we would be prepared.”

    Dr. Nedd, the church’s rector, remained torn about whether to arm himself.

    “I don’t feel right carrying it on my person when I’m saying mass,” he said. “I’ll probably spend a bunch of time praying about it, and then make a decision when I walk out the door on Sunday morning.”

    —Tawnell D. Hobbs contributed to this article.

    Write to Ian Lovett at Ian.Lovett@wsj.com and Erin Ailworth at Erin.Ailworth@wsj.com
    Last edited by vinnyg101; November 13th, 2017 at 04:45 AM.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: This Sunday, Some Churchgoers May Choose to Pack Guns With Their Bibles

    Luke 22:36

  3. #3
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    Default Re: This Sunday, Some Churchgoers May Choose to Pack Guns With Their Bibles

    Kahr CW380 today, usually that or Shield 9. I need some better holsters for the more formal stuff. My church is awesome, probably the strongest church I've ever been in. Sad to say but it's precisely because it's a strong church that takes real meaningful stands and has real powerful faith that those who oppose Christianity would have the most to dislike about us. I wonder if there are more of us there armed--I expect so, but nobody's said much about it to me so far.
    "You can't stop insane people from doing insane things by passing insane laws--that's insane!" -- Penn Jillette

    "To my mind it is wholly irresponsible to go into the world incapable of preventing violence, injury, crime, and death. How feeble is the mindset to accept defenselessness. How unnatural. How cheap. How cowardly. How pathetic." -- Ted Nugent

  4. #4
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    Default Re: This Sunday, Some Churchgoers May Choose to Pack Guns With Their Bibles

    Quote Originally Posted by Sgt.K View Post
    Luke 22:36


    I was thinking Luke 6:31



    Do onto others..............

  5. #5
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    Default Re: This Sunday, Some Churchgoers May Choose to Pack Guns With Their Bibles

    adding that her husband, a devoted shooter and collector, doesn’t want to be in a position of using a gun to kill a person.
    So the solution is to be helpless and just die in that case? What a tard. As stupid is that is, that's what it boils down to for a lot of people. They don't want to take responsibility because they don't want to be responsible. It's common, but virtually impossible for me to respect that kind of thinking. If your life isn't valuable enough to you as a gift from God and valuable to everyone who loves you as to not have the moral clarity to defend it on behalf of yourself and others, then there is something severely wrong with your thinking or severely wrong with you.
    Last edited by Yellowfin; November 12th, 2017 at 11:52 PM.
    "You can't stop insane people from doing insane things by passing insane laws--that's insane!" -- Penn Jillette

    "To my mind it is wholly irresponsible to go into the world incapable of preventing violence, injury, crime, and death. How feeble is the mindset to accept defenselessness. How unnatural. How cheap. How cowardly. How pathetic." -- Ted Nugent

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    Default Re: This Sunday, Some Churchgoers May Choose to Pack Guns With Their Bibles

    "Church is no place for guns.."

    Yea, because no one is killing anyone else in mass numbers because their invisible man in the sky can kick the other' s invisible man in the sky's ass.

    (Parts stolen from George Carlin)
    Go sell crazy some where else, we're all stocked up here.


    Political power grows from the muzzle of a gun.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: This Sunday, Some Churchgoers May Choose to Pack Guns With Their Bibles

    The problem of too many people claiming to be people of faith yet embracing pacifism and other fake virtues and fallacies is one of our biggest obstacles. I hope that as more people take up the responsibility of self protection that pathological pacifism, as well as any other tenants of secular postmodernism and Marxism, will be discredited and eventually discarded entirely.
    Last edited by Yellowfin; November 13th, 2017 at 01:13 AM.
    "You can't stop insane people from doing insane things by passing insane laws--that's insane!" -- Penn Jillette

    "To my mind it is wholly irresponsible to go into the world incapable of preventing violence, injury, crime, and death. How feeble is the mindset to accept defenselessness. How unnatural. How cheap. How cowardly. How pathetic." -- Ted Nugent

  8. #8
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    Default Re: This Sunday, Some Churchgoers May Choose to Pack Guns With Their Bibles

    Quote Originally Posted by Yellowfin View Post
    The problem of too many people claiming to be people of faith yet embracing pacifism and other fake virtues and fallacies is one of our biggest obstacles. I hope that as more people take up the responsibility of self protection that pathological pacifism, as well as any other tenants of secular postmodernism and Marxism, will be discredited and eventually discarded entirely.
    Not all pacifism is post modern, some dates back hundreds of years in Christianity in response largely to catholic excesses. You see it a lot in the traditional German denominations (Anabaptists), Brethrens. That said, it likely an excessive response, just like a a belief that all alcohol is sinful, when in truth only excessive drinking or drinking bad alcohol is sinful.
    "Cives Arma Ferant"

    "I know I'm not James Bond, that's why I don't keep a loaded gun under the pillow, or bang Russian spies on a regular basis." - GunLawyer001

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    Default Re: This Sunday, Some Churchgoers May Choose to Pack Guns With Their Bibles

    Back in the day a Samurai warrior as part of Bushido looked at his sword as tool for saving a life rather than a tool for taking a life.

    Heroic Courage

    Hiding like a turtle in a shell is not living at all. A true warrior must have heroic courage. It is absolutely risky. It is living life completely, fully and wonderfully. Heroic courage is not blind. It is intelligent and strong.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: This Sunday, Some Churchgoers May Choose to Pack Guns With Their Bibles

    I attend an Episcopal church in Central PA (not the one mentioned in the article) and I carry there, just like I do pretty much everywhere unless legally prohibited (e.g. the post office). Never even occurred to me NOT to carry in church...
    "Those who would give up essential Liberty to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety" - Ben Franklin.

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