Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #31
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    Default Re: Dems introduce Assault Weapons Ban of 2017 Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by eagleclaw View Post
    The Assault weapon bill of the 90s did not allow 3 features. It only allowed one. Most manufacturers kept the pistol grip and did away with the folding/collapsible stock, bayonet lug, and flash suppressor. The flash suppressors were modified into recoil compensators. On some rifles thumb loop stocks were used because they did not count as a evil feature. The new bans that were enacted in NY and other states don’t allow any features including thumb loop stocks and recoil compensators. This is why you see the NY compliant ARs with the stocks looking like it was made by a plumber and a plain barrel with nothing on the end.
    Here is a summarization Senator Frankenstein’s latest creation:
    Key provisions
    • Bans the sale, manufacture, transfer and importation of 205 military-style assault weapons by name. Owners may keep existing weapons.
    • Bans any assault weapon that accepts a detachable ammunition magazine and has one or more military characteristics including a pistol grip, a forward grip, a barrel shroud, a threaded barrel or a folding or telescoping stock. Owners may keep existing weapons.
    • Bans magazines and other ammunition feeding devices that hold more than 10 rounds of ammunition, which allow shooters to quickly fire many rounds without needing to reload. Owners may keep existing magazines.
    Exemptions to bill
    • The bill exempts by name more than 2,200 guns for hunting, household defense or recreational purposes.
    • The bill includes a grandfather clause that exempts all weapons lawfully possessed at the date of enactment.
    Other provisions:
    • Requires a background check on any future sale, trade or gifting of an assault weapon covered by the bill.
    • Requires that grandfathered assault weapons are stored using a secure gun storage or safety device like a trigger lock.
    Prohibits the transfer of high-capacity ammunition magazines.
    • Bans bump-fire stocks and other devices that allow semi-automatic weapons to fire at fully automatic rates.
    However there is some good news if you want to call it that, it doesn’t seem to ban thumb loop stocks. At least I couldn’t find it listed as an evil feature in the bill.
    https://www.feinstein.senate.gov/pub...-bill-text.pdf

    Thanks for clarifying. So other than a fixed buttstock, the new ban essentially allows zero current/important AR-15 features if the rifle accepts a detachable magazine. ie no pistol grip, no quad rail /handguard

    It appears that under the new proposed law, quad rails/ hand guards would have to be modified so that they don't completely encircle the barrel and the rest of the rifle would have to be like those freaky NY compliant one's we've seen.

    I suspect that if the ATF interprets a thumbhole stock to have a pistol grip, then it too would be banned under the legislation.

    Is the above language also in the bill? If so, it seems to me that the list of banned characteristics listed is not all inclusive, but open to interpretation over whether they are "military" or not, based on the use of the word "including"
    Last edited by TSimonetti; November 10th, 2017 at 12:20 PM.

  2. #32
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    Zelienople, Pennsylvania
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    Default Re: Dems introduce Assault Weapons Ban of 2017 Bill

    The difference between then and now is that millions of people own "assault" rifles now. They better be careful what they wish for. Pass a ban and millions of gun owners, their families, and friends will crawl over broken glass to vote against the Dems in the next election after that.

  3. #33
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    Default Re: Dems introduce Assault Weapons Ban of 2017 Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by scruff View Post
    The difference between then and now is that millions of people own "assault" rifles now. They better be careful what they wish for. Pass a ban and millions of gun owners, their families, and friends will crawl over broken glass to vote against the Dems in the next election after that.
    And there are 200 million more magazines floating around thanks to advances and acceptance of polymer technology.

  4. #34
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    Default Re: Dems introduce Assault Weapons Ban of 2017 Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by TSimonetti View Post
    Thanks for clarifying. So other than a fixed buttstock, the new ban essentially allows zero current/important AR-15 features if the rifle accepts a detachable magazine. ie no pistol grip, no quad rail /handguard

    It appears that under the new proposed law, quad rails/ hand guards would have to be modified so that they don't completely encircle the barrel and the rest of the rifle would have to be like those freaky NY compliant one's we've seen.

    I suspect that if the ATF interprets a thumbhole stock to have a pistol grip, then it too would be banned under the legislation.

    Is the above language also in the bill? If so, it seems to me that the list of banned characteristics listed is not all inclusive, but open to interpretation over whether they are "military" or not, based on the use of the word "including"
    The summarization points were copied from Feinstein’s website. It’s not the exact language in the bill. The bill is in the link. Should this bill pass, I sure there is going to be a lot up for interpretation.

    My take on the bill not banning thumb loop stocks is Feinstein is throwing the GOP a bone. It is just an attempt to make it less evil to convince more rinos and democrats that don’t want to deal with a gun control bill to vote for it.

    Currently ATF doesn’t count thumb loop stocks as a bad feature . Two carbines that were imported recently have them I assuming to satisfy the “sporting purpose” clause. They are the Beretta CX4 and the Taurus CT9. Of course who knows what the ATF will do now ever since they got blamed for allowing the bump stock to be released to the public. i suspect the reason why they don’t want to reclassify the bump stock is doing so now will be an admission that they screwed up in allowing it on the market in the first place.
    Last edited by eagleclaw; November 10th, 2017 at 01:22 PM.

  5. #35
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    Default Re: Dems introduce Assault Weapons Ban of 2017 Bill

    I found this which explains it very well: http://reason.com/blog/2017/11/08/se...-weapons-ban-p

    Sen. Feinstein's New Assault Weapons Ban Proposal Is the Perfect, Pointless Response for the 'Do Something' Crowd

    Here is an excerpt that summarizes it well.

    Feinstein admits as much.

    "We're introducing an updated Assault Weapons Ban for one reason," she said in a statement announcing the bill: "so that after every mass shooting with a military-style assault weapon, the American people will know that a tool to reduce these massacres is sitting in the Senate, ready for debate and a vote."

    It's interesting that Feinstein sees that as the "one reason" why this bill has been introduced. Not because it will stop mass shootings, or because it will make it harder for bad people to get guns, or even because it's a small step toward a less violent society.

    Nope. This bill has been introduced for "one reason": so Democrats can score political points by holding it up and waving it every time there's a high-profile crime with a gun. Look! There's a bill right here, ready for debate and a vote! Will the bill do anything to stop these horrific attacks from happening? Well, no, but that's not the point.

    At least she's being honest about it. Feinstein has never been particularly good at masking the fact that her assault ban proposals are based more in emotion than reason; this is another entry in that long ledger.
    Illegitimus non carborundum est

  6. #36
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    Default Re: Dems introduce Assault Weapons Ban of 2017 Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by fallenleader View Post
    kudos. glad to see you floating around here again.

    i got tired of writing good letters and receiving canned responses so the last few i sent were short, to the point and cutthroat.
    stopping ever so short of anything that could get me in trouble.
    certainly no plesantries
    Easy for you to say, I threw up in my mouth a little.
    Go sell crazy some where else, we're all stocked up here.


    Political power grows from the muzzle of a gun.

  7. #37
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    Default Re: Dems introduce Assault Weapons Ban of 2017 Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by pacodelahoya View Post
    Easy for you to say, I threw up in my mouth a little.
    dunno if you have personal issues but they're coming for his guns just as much ours. sure, his party wants to give free @#^S to everyone, open borders and damn all the consequences.
    starting to look like half of ours wants the same...
    gun owners should be like bikers. i -loathe- the front platers. but that same NYer can be on a bike and all is fine.
    now, you'll always have your outliers, that guy who checks down his barrel to see if it's unloaded and that same guy who is doing 120 down the center line of the highway in a t-shirt and flipflops.
    DGO has, in my view, been capable of debate. i'd hope he were also capable of standing shoulder to shoulder when they come.
    seem to recall a flag that expressed this sentiment.
    "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."

  8. #38
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    Default Re: Dems introduce Assault Weapons Ban of 2017 Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by eagleclaw View Post
    The summarization points were copied from Feinstein’s website. It’s not the exact language in the bill. The bill is in the link. Should this bill pass, I sure there is going to be a lot up for interpretation.

    My take on the bill not banning thumb loop stocks is Feinstein is throwing the GOP a bone. It is just an attempt to make it less evil to convince more rinos and democrats that don’t want to deal with a gun control bill to vote for it.

    Currently ATF doesn’t count thumb loop stocks as a bad feature . Two carbines that were imported recently have them I assuming to satisfy the “sporting purpose” clause. They are the Beretta CX4 and the Taurus CT9. Of course who knows what the ATF will do now ever since they got blamed for allowing the bump stock to be released to the public. i suspect the reason why they don’t want to reclassify the bump stock is doing so now will be an admission that they screwed up in allowing it on the market in the first place.
    Ban on thumbhole stock was in Feinstein's 2013 ban, but has curiously been spared in the 2017 ban, unless they consider those stocks to have a pistol grip.(which they essentially do have)

    It looks like M1 Carbine Paratrooper stocks are a banned feature under the 2017 bill. Only M1 carbines with standard stocks are exempted from the ban.
    Last edited by TSimonetti; November 11th, 2017 at 03:34 AM.

  9. #39
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    Default Re: Dems introduce Assault Weapons Ban of 2017 Bill

    Feinstein admits as much.

    "......the American people will know that a tool to reduce these massacres is sitting in the Senate, ready for debate and a vote."

    If ever there was a true statement.......................

  10. #40
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    Lehigh Valley, Pennsylvania
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    Default Re: Dems introduce Assault Weapons Ban of 2017 Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by TSimonetti View Post
    Thanks for clarifying. So other than a fixed buttstock, the new ban essentially allows zero current/important AR-15 features if the rifle accepts a detachable magazine. ie no pistol grip, no quad rail /handguard

    It appears that under the new proposed law, quad rails/ hand guards would have to be modified so that they don't completely encircle the barrel and the rest of the rifle would have to be like those freaky NY compliant one's we've seen.

    I suspect that if the ATF interprets a thumbhole stock to have a pistol grip, then it too would be banned under the legislation.

    Is the above language also in the bill? If so, it seems to me that the list of banned characteristics listed is not all inclusive, but open to interpretation over whether they are "military" or not, based on the use of the word "including"
    “Pistol grip” would be defined as “a grip, a thumbhole stock, or any other characteristic that can function as a grip,” meaning the ban could implicate even traditional stocks or grips specifically designed to comply with existing state “assault weapon” laws.
    Illegitimus non carborundum est

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