Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #11
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    Default Re: Philadelphia Police Officers and LTCF Philadelphia PD Directive 5.27

    Quote Originally Posted by ar15jules View Post
    There may be language in regulations that indicate a requirement to qualify with "off duty" weapons etc... There often is a list of permitted calibers and firearms in a PDs firearm regulations. Most also limit the number of personal weapons an officer can qualify with. So, not that an officer would be breaking the law by carrying a Kel-Tec P3AT in a belly band while jogging, but more than likely doing something against PD regs. I would say that MOST of the officers I know who are "gun guys", also possess and maintain a valid PALTCF.
    But are those officers with the PPD or with other departments that do not have that requirement in place?
    Last edited by Krichardson; November 7th, 2017 at 12:31 AM.
    There are no pacts between lions and men.

  2. #12
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    Default Re: Philadelphia Police Officers and LTCF Philadelphia PD Directive 5.27

    Temple Police are certified by the Commonwealth of Pa Pennsylvania Municipal Police Officers' Education and Training Commission. I used to provide firearms training to the Temple Police on occasion in the 80s at our municipal range. For all intents and purposes they are fully certified police officers and should be eligible for LEOSA.

  3. #13
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    Default Re: Philadelphia Police Officers and LTCF Philadelphia PD Directive 5.27

    Quote Originally Posted by LTCcarrier View Post
    NOTE: Active Philadelphia Police Officers are prohibited from possessing License to Carry. The Commanding Officer, Recruit Division, will ensure that all police recruits relinquish any License to Carry that may have been issued to them prior to beginning their recruit training.


    The above directive tells Philadelphia police officers that they cannot hold a LCTF while they are an active police officer. You may ask why would this matter because police officers are exempt from LTCF regulations and also have LEOSA as well. Well when I was a municipal police officer in PA during the 1980s, the first thing told to me by my training officer was to obtain a LTCF immediately. The rationale was that if you were suspended, your police powers were also suspended and you could carry for self defense until reinstated. I did obtain a gun permit and have had one ever since.

    This may be one of the reasons that Philly police hate issuing LTCFs to non LEOs. They don't want you to have what they may not be able to get.
    Never heard this before. What is your source ?

  4. #14
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    Default Re: Philadelphia Police Officers and LTCF Philadelphia PD Directive 5.27

    Quote Originally Posted by LTCcarrier View Post
    NOTE: Active Philadelphia Police Officers are prohibited from possessing License to Carry. The Commanding Officer, Recruit Division, will ensure that all police recruits relinquish any License to Carry that may have been issued to them prior to beginning their recruit training.


    The above directive tells Philadelphia police officers that they cannot hold a LCTF while they are an active police officer. You may ask why would this matter because police officers are exempt from LTCF regulations and also have LEOSA as well. Well when I was a municipal police officer in PA during the 1980s, the first thing told to me by my training officer was to obtain a LTCF immediately. The rationale was that if you were suspended, your police powers were also suspended and you could carry for self defense until reinstated. I did obtain a gun permit and have had one ever since.

    This may be one of the reasons that Philly police hate issuing LTCFs to non LEOs. They don't want you to have what they may not be able to get.
    After thinking about this all day, it just hit me:

    They want to make absolutely sure that when they suspend someone, there's no chance that they could legally carry during the suspension. That way they can inconvenience the officer as much as possible (no defense against pissed off perps or their families) and/or have another charge they can slap on when he/she is caught carrying anyway.

    Sure would make *me* wanna work for them... </s>

  5. #15
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    Default Re: Philadelphia Police Officers and LTCF Philadelphia PD Directive 5.27

    Quote Originally Posted by LTCcarrier View Post
    NOTE: Active Philadelphia Police Officers are prohibited from possessing License to Carry. The Commanding Officer, Recruit Division, will ensure that all police recruits relinquish any License to Carry that may have been issued to them prior to beginning their recruit training.
    If taken to court, would such a prohibition be permissible? Qualified police officers may well be able to carry under LEOSA, but I don't think police recruits meet LEOSA standards.

  6. #16
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    Default Re: Philadelphia Police Officers and LTCF Philadelphia PD Directive 5.27

    Quote Originally Posted by Statkowski View Post
    If taken to court, would such a prohibition be permissible? Qualified police officers may well be able to carry under LEOSA, but I don't think police recruits meet LEOSA standards.
    Police recruits are not sworn in until graduation.
    "The Constitution is the guide which I will not abandon.” - George Washington

  7. #17
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    Default Re: Philadelphia Police Officers and LTCF Philadelphia PD Directive 5.27

    It specifically addresses recruits having LTCF prior to (academy) training. They don't want anyone carrying until trained on the academy range. Nothing new about that. Used to be able to carry after passing the firearms courses, prior to graduation. With todays ridiculous gun attitudes, I've lost track of their policies.
    Last edited by Bang; November 8th, 2017 at 02:35 AM.

  8. #18
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    Default Re: Philadelphia Police Officers and LTCF Philadelphia PD Directive 5.27

    Quote Originally Posted by LTCcarrier View Post
    Temple Police are certified by the Commonwealth of Pa Pennsylvania Municipal Police Officers' Education and Training Commission. I used to provide firearms training to the Temple Police on occasion in the 80s at our municipal range. For all intents and purposes they are fully certified police officers and should be eligible for LEOSA.
    LEOSA refers to the term qualified LE Officer as someone from a governmental agency. The State Owned Universities in the State System of Higher Education would be LEOSA since they work for the State. Even though Pitt, Temple, Lincoln and Penn State are private schools, they may be able to argue that they are state related and under LEOSA. But it appears that the Lehigh's , Carnegie Mellon's, or Bucknell's would not be LEOSA since they do not work for a governmental agency.

    I'm not sure that most other PD's in the country would care about the privates and seeing a police badge, but in the NY, NJ and Califonia's of the world I wouldn't want to try it. I am still trying to understand the PA Constable ruling under LEOSA. I get that they work for the Courts which is a governmental agency, yet no one in the Court System seems to take ownership over Constables. I'm just glad that the US Courts viewed it liberally and included the PA Constables under LEOSA, otherwise New York City/State would have claimed another victim.

  9. #19
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    Default Re: Philadelphia Police Officers and LTCF Philadelphia PD Directive 5.27

    Quote Originally Posted by Remington788 View Post
    Never heard this before. What is your source ?
    The directive I QUOTED is online

  10. #20
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    Default Re: Philadelphia Police Officers and LTCF Philadelphia PD Directive 5.27

    Quote Originally Posted by Ricochet View Post
    Not trying to stray off topic.....
    But in PA I know of some places like hospitals and colleges are allowed to employ their own "Private Police" departments as long as the officers complete ACT120.

    Are these private police officers able to obtain LEOSA?
    I may be in need of a career change.
    IANAL but as far as I am aware LEOSA only applies to Law Enforcement with "Arrest Powers"
    this is my Constables are covered but most Corrections Officers and Sheriffs Deputies are not
    Retired US Army
    NRA Life Member, GOA, USCCA
    "Artificial intelligence is no match for Natural Stupidity"

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