Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #1
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    Default Hornady titanium nitride 45 auto die problems

    So please give me your thoughts...... except crimp separately. I know the standard line is to crimp in separate op, but at least for now I refuse to believe it can't be done.

    I have limited experience reloading. 357Sig was my first and honestly it was a curve but worked out great! I loaded a thousand or so of those rounds.

    I started loading 45 thinking it would be easy. I got the Hornady titanium nitride 3 die set with taper crimp/bullet setting in the same op. This is the same type of die set I used for 357Sig. I am using a rockchucker press and I measure every round.

    I set up the dies and all seemed well except when I did a drop test in the barrel, they wouldn't go in all the way. I ran the crimp down 1/8 and the round dropped in more. I kept that up until in dropped in just like a factory round. The problem is that when I draw down the handle on the press, the round gets stuck. When I pull it harder the press makes a bang and the round comes out. The case mouth looks like it was slightly damaged and I can get brass shavings on my fingers when I wipe it. Hornady replaced the taper collar but it still doesn't work right. There is an odd machine pattern right where the collar and the case mouth get crimped and eventually a ring of brass will show up inside the collar.

    What are your thoughts about making this work?
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    With great power comes great responsibility....

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Hornady titanium nitride 45 auto die problems

    Try resetting your seating and crimp die. Try this procedure and see if it makes sense and works OK. You will need a new FACTORY cartridge with about the same bullet profile as you're reloading. Be sure the seating stem is screwed out all the way so it will not contact the bullet. To begin, insert the cartridge into the shell holder and raise the ram to its full height, now screw your seating die into the press as required, and screw it in until the crimp shoulder just engages the loaded cartridge and stop. Now screw the seating stem in until it touches the nose of the bullet and stops. That sets your initial seating depth and crimp. Now try your own case and bullet (note, you can do it as a dummy, powder and primer aren't needed, but you must resize and you must expand the case mouth. Keep the dummy thus created for future reference so you can reset for that bullet).
    I cannot think of an easier way to get the initial set. I hope it works for you.


    "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities".

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Hornady titanium nitride 45 auto die problems

    I found that since I refuse to segregate headstamps or trim pistol brass it is hard to set up a combo seating crimping die to reliably do the job. It either won't chamber (fails 'plunk' test in a stripped barrel) or smashes and buckles the brass.

    The solution is the Lee factory crimp die. It irons out the sides and crimps perfectly every time. I used to run my 3 station progressive without crimping then run the Lee FCD on a single stage but that got old so I got a dedicated press with another station just for 45. Now I get a perfect round every time I pull the handle.

    The only downside is that the Lee FCD could sometimes possibly be squeezing my cast bullets smaller than they need to be for best accuracy. I use starline brass for 50 yard bullseye shooting loads (h&g swc) to eliminate that variable.

    Good luck!

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Hornady titanium nitride 45 auto die problems

    Ok..... So I was so frustrated with this issue that I took it out on the inside of the taper crimp!! A little polishing compound and a dremel drastically improved the action and the case mouth is less damaged. I may go for a little more polish.

    Could Hornady really put out something this wrong and not realize it?? Clearly, the inside of the taper had machine marks in the area that was causing the case mouth to stick.

    Really?
    With great power comes great responsibility....

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Hornady titanium nitride 45 auto die problems

    Two issues: die set-up and COL/determining cause of chambering problem.
    Not sure why you reference the titanium nitride sizing die as that material is not an issue.

    Die set-up
    1) Sizing die: With shell holder installed (or shell plate), raise ram and hold UP. Screw the die body down until it contacts the shell holder. Lower ram, insert case, and raise ram. With case in die, tighten lock ring. You don't NEED to use a lock screw at all, but you can. I too use only clamping lock rings or Lee/Dillon lock nuts. I actually prefer Lee and Dillon nuts, particularly for use with die bushings or tool heads.
    I find that so far, after over 40 years, I have never had to adjust a decapping rod as received, unless I broke or bent a decapping pin. When I do, I mark on the decapping rod where it and the die body meet so, when I install a new pin, I can align the pin in a case and set the stem back where it was.
    2) Expander die: If expander is on a stem, raise ram with shell holder all the way UP. Screw die body down until it just touches the shell holder and tighten the lock screw. Loosen the expander stem, lower ram, place case in ram, and raise all the way and, if needed, help the expander to enter the case. Lower ram, adjust expander until you get the case mouth flare you want and, with expander stem in case, tighten the expander lock nut.
    If using a one-piece expander, like from Hornady, you simply use a case to get the expansion and flare you want and, with the case still in the die, tighten the die body lock ring.
    3) Powder-through powder measure: The expander is loose and floats, so simply screw the powder die body down until you get the case mouth flare you want and the powder measure actuator is fully cycling up-and-down and lock the powder die down.
    With progressives that have die bushings, I often find it better to set-up the powder measure on another station that avoids having the powder measure hit the primer tube or anything else as I adjust the powder die. When everything is correct, I lock the powder die to the bushing and move it to the powder station. With the bushings having several positions for the bushing to enter the press, you can find a position where the powder measure doesn't interfere with anything else.
    With tool heads, you generally can leave the measure-to-tool head loose so you can adjust the powder die body without rotating the powder measure and lock the powder die in place when everything is set correct.
    4) Seating die: Inspect seating stem to bullet fit and, if required, order a correctly fitting seating stem. Why waste time trying to improve your dies if your seating stem is not a proper fit and seats the bullet crooked?
    Place expanded and flared case in shell holder and raise ram all the way UP and hold it there. Turn seating stem all the way UP. Screw the seating die body down until the crimp section hits the case and screw the die body UP two full turns. Place bullet on case and raise ram. Screw seating stem down until it contacts the bullet. Lower ram and screw seating stem down at least two full turns and lock the die body. Raise ram and seat the bullet. Adjust seating stem to get targeted COL (Cartridge Overall Length) and, with the round still under tension, lock the seating stem down.
    If you are using the die for crimp, you will need to NOT lock the seating stem, but rather raise it all the way, and adjust the die body down until you get the targeted crimp and, with the round still in the die, lock the die body down, turn seating stem until it contacts the bullet, and lock the seating stem down.
    Crimp die: Leave die floating until you get the crimp set (where the round just drops into the chamber and goes "plunk") and, again with round in the die, lock the die body down.

    Your COL (Cartridge Overall Length) is determined by;
    your barrel (chamber and throat dimensions)
    and
    your gun (feed ramp)
    and
    your magazine (COL that fits magazine and when the magazine lips release the round for feeding)
    and
    the PARTICULAR bullet you are using.
    What worked in a pressure barrel or the lab's gun or in my gun has very little to do with what will work best in your gun.
    Take the barrel out of the gun. Create two inert dummy rounds (no powder or primer) at max COL and remove enough case mouth flare for rounds to chamber (you can achieve this by using a sized case—expand-and-flare it, and remove the flare just until the case "plunks" in the barrel and lock the die body down temporarily).
    Drop the inert rounds in and decrease the COL until they chamber completely. This will be your "max" effective COL. I prefer to have the case head flush with the barrel hood (or a few mils higher than where the head of an empty case aligns with the barrel, as all cases are too short and I prefer to minimize head space). After this, place the inert rounds in the magazine and be sure they fit the magazine and feed and chamber.
    You can also do this for any chambering problems you have. Remove the barrel and drop rounds in until you find one that won't chamber. Take that round and "paint" the bullet and case black with Magic Marker or other marker. Drop this round in the barrel and rotate it back-and-forth.
    Remove and inspect the round:
    1) Scratches on bullet--COL is too long
    2) Scratches on edge of the case mouth--insufficient crimp
    3) Scratches just below the case mouth--too much crimp, you're crushing the case
    4) Scratches on case at base of bullet--bullet seated crooked due to insufficient case expansion (not case mouth flare) or improper seating stem fit
    5) Scratches on case just above extractor groove--case bulge not removed during sizing. May need a bulge buster.
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  6. #6
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    Default Re: Hornady titanium nitride 45 auto die problems

    Are you belling the mouth too much? Then resizing it with the crimp?

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Hornady titanium nitride 45 auto die problems

    Quote Originally Posted by Gunsnwater View Post
    Are you belling the mouth too much? Then resizing it with the crimp?
    I tried backing off the bell until I couldn't get a bullet to stay in and it didn't help.

    I really think the poor quality control from Hornady is the issue. Polishing the inside of the taper sleeve helped a lot. As far as resizing the case goes, it was resized full length. I bought a gauge to double check and the gauge confirms my issue. I will polish the taper a bit more to see if I can eliminate the issue completely.

    Thanks to all.
    With great power comes great responsibility....

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Hornady titanium nitride 45 auto die problems

    Quote Originally Posted by noylj View Post
    Two issues: die set-up and COL/determining cause of chambering problem.
    Not sure why you reference the titanium nitride sizing die as that material is not an issue.
    I referred to the material as I wanted to distinguish between different die sets.
    COL is right on as measured with caliper and/or guage(I measure every round).
    Die set up has been done and re-done over and over even trying various tweaks.
    Hard taper material+soft brass+bad machine finishing on taper= beat up case mouth
    With great power comes great responsibility....

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Hornady titanium nitride 45 auto die problems

    The 2 main things to a uniform crimp is uniform case length (within .003) and uniform case neck thickness. Many people say ya don't need to trim auto-pistol brass , but if they're not the same length , crimp will be inconsistent.
    I don't speak English , I talk American!

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Hornady titanium nitride 45 auto die problems

    Quote Originally Posted by abner13 View Post
    The 2 main things to a uniform crimp is uniform case length (within .003) and uniform case neck thickness. Many people say ya don't need to trim auto-pistol brass , but if they're not the same length , crimp will be inconsistent.
    BINGO!

    This is my first advice for an inconsistent crimp when reloading handgun calibers.
    Obama. AYFKM?! / Pravda vit'azi.

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