Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #31
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    Default Re: Electronic (digital) scales. I've given up on them.

    Quote Originally Posted by streaker69 View Post
    When you guys are using these scales, are you measuring the entire completed cartridge, and is that measurement in grains?
    The scales are designed to measure the powder charge, although they can be used to check projectile weights and empty cartridge weight as well.

    To be clear, thats the weight increment grains, as in 7000 grains per pound, as distinct from wheat, barley, corn, and other grains fed to chickens.

  2. #32
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    Default Re: Electronic (digital) scales. I've given up on them.

    Quote Originally Posted by frankski View Post
    The scales are designed to measure the powder charge, although they can be used to check projectile weights and empty cartridge weight as well.

    To be clear, thats the weight increment grains, as in 7000 grains per pound, as distinct from wheat, barley, corn, and other grains fed to chickens.
    Do you measure the powder for each round or is it done through a dispenser?

    What would be great for my experimentation would be if someone could write up all the uses you have for these scales in the reloading process.
    Rules are written in the stone,
    Break the rules and you get no bones,
    all you get is ridicule, laughter,
    and a trip to the house of pain.

  3. #33
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    Default Re: Electronic (digital) scales. I've given up on them.

    Quote Originally Posted by streaker69 View Post
    Do you measure the powder for each round or is it done through a dispenser?

    What would be great for my experimentation would be if someone could write up all the uses you have for these scales in the reloading process.
    Typically you calibrate the dispenser to drop a specific weight of powder, and use the scale to check for drift periodically.

    For powders that don’t dispense consistently, like certain stick powders, or when loading precision ammo, you may measure each charge individually.

    Sometimes, for grins, I weigh liberals’ brains for scientific research, but it takes a lot of them to move the scale.

  4. #34
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    Default Re: Electronic (digital) scales. I've given up on them.

    Quote Originally Posted by streaker69 View Post
    Do you measure the powder for each round or is it done through a dispenser?

    What would be great for my experimentation would be if someone could write up all the uses you have for these scales in the reloading process.
    The simple answer to your first question is "yes", as the response below to your second question will show.

    Often when using a single stage press - and "always" when using a progressive - powder is thrown by volume. A volume is chosen after carefully weighing throws from a dispenser (called a powder measure) and adjusting the volume until the desired charge weight is repeatedly shown. Throughout the production run, the volume thrown will periodically be weighed to ensure nothing has drifted too far out of adjustment.

    Some variation is expected, but the amount that is tolerated depends on the user and the application for the ammo. For example, most people will accept a variation of +/- 0.1gr for pistol and other high volume applications. OTOH, many folks want a variation of +/-0.02gr for precision rifle work.

    Since any powder charge thrown by volume can vary by weight, those looking for more precision will throw a charge close to but intentionally under the desired weight and place it on the scale. This can be done by a dispenser, spoon, scoop, or the like. From there a device called a trickler will be used to add powder very slowly to the powder on the scale, often a particle at a time, until the exact charge weight is achieved.

    In the above cases either a digital scale or a beam scale can be used. A very high-quality digital scale can achieve a higher level of precision than a beam scale and a Mark I Eyeball. Unfortunately, most of the affordable digital scales (ie under ~$550) are based on a load cell, and cannot consistently deliver the precision many feel is needed.

    Recently dispensers have been coupled with digital scales so that a specific weight can be set and the dispenser will throw powder at various speeds until the scale tells the dispenser that the target weight has been hit.

    Finally, (digital) scales can be used to (quickly) weigh cases and/or bullets so (eg) they can be separated into identical groups. These are then loaded and shot as a group. This is done in an attempt to ensure each cartridge handloaded and fired is as close to identical to the previous one as possible.

    Almost all handloaders weigh in grains, matching load manuals and much other published data. But note that the internal unit of measure for all (AFAIK) digital scales is grams. The scale converts the grams determined into whatever unit of measure the user has requested. Since this can lead to a rounding problem when converting to grains, some small number of users choose to use grams (actually milligrams) throughout when setting a target powder charge and dispensing loads.

    Don't know what your experimentation is about, but hope that helps.

  5. #35
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    Default Re: Electronic (digital) scales. I've given up on them.

    It's possible Streaker isn't really interested but is just trolling reloaders for amusement.

    Speaking of amusement, when are we going to see that chicken-powered digital scale? I'm hoping for a chicken-treadmill-generator system, but a chicken manure-methane-steampunk generator would be cool, too.

  6. #36
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    Default Re: Electronic (digital) scales. I've given up on them.

    Quote Originally Posted by frankski View Post
    It's possible Streaker isn't really interested but is just trolling reloaders for amusement.
    .
    Uhh, no.

    Rules are written in the stone,
    Break the rules and you get no bones,
    all you get is ridicule, laughter,
    and a trip to the house of pain.

  7. #37
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    Default Re: Electronic (digital) scales. I've given up on them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Twoboxer View Post
    The simple answer to your first question is "yes", as the response below to your second question will show.

    Often when using a single stage press - and "always" when using a progressive - powder is thrown by volume. A volume is chosen after carefully weighing throws from a dispenser (called a powder measure) and adjusting the volume until the desired charge weight is repeatedly shown. Throughout the production run, the volume thrown will periodically be weighed to ensure nothing has drifted too far out of adjustment.

    Some variation is expected, but the amount that is tolerated depends on the user and the application for the ammo. For example, most people will accept a variation of +/- 0.1gr for pistol and other high volume applications. OTOH, many folks want a variation of +/-0.02gr for precision rifle work.

    Since any powder charge thrown by volume can vary by weight, those looking for more precision will throw a charge close to but intentionally under the desired weight and place it on the scale. This can be done by a dispenser, spoon, scoop, or the like. From there a device called a trickler will be used to add powder very slowly to the powder on the scale, often a particle at a time, until the exact charge weight is achieved.

    In the above cases either a digital scale or a beam scale can be used. A very high-quality digital scale can achieve a higher level of precision than a beam scale and a Mark I Eyeball. Unfortunately, most of the affordable digital scales (ie under ~$550) are based on a load cell, and cannot consistently deliver the precision many feel is needed.

    Recently dispensers have been coupled with digital scales so that a specific weight can be set and the dispenser will throw powder at various speeds until the scale tells the dispenser that the target weight has been hit.

    Finally, (digital) scales can be used to (quickly) weigh cases and/or bullets so (eg) they can be separated into identical groups. These are then loaded and shot as a group. This is done in an attempt to ensure each cartridge handloaded and fired is as close to identical to the previous one as possible.

    Almost all handloaders weigh in grains, matching load manuals and much other published data. But note that the internal unit of measure for all (AFAIK) digital scales is grams. The scale converts the grams determined into whatever unit of measure the user has requested. Since this can lead to a rounding problem when converting to grains, some small number of users choose to use grams (actually milligrams) throughout when setting a target powder charge and dispensing loads.

    Don't know what your experimentation is about, but hope that helps.
    Thanks for all that, it does help.
    Rules are written in the stone,
    Break the rules and you get no bones,
    all you get is ridicule, laughter,
    and a trip to the house of pain.

  8. #38
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    Default Re: Electronic (digital) scales. I've given up on them.

    Quote Originally Posted by streaker69 View Post
    Uhh, no.

    Clock-Boy, izzat you?

  9. #39
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    Default Re: Electronic (digital) scales. I've given up on them.

    Quote Originally Posted by frankski View Post
    Clock-Boy, izzat you?
    No, Streaker could have built something actually functional.

  10. #40
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    Default Re: Electronic (digital) scales. I've given up on them.

    If Streaker just spent more time not reloading he would have known all this already!
    Illegitimus non carborundum est

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