Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #61
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
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    N.E., Pennsylvania
    (Susquehanna County)
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    Default Re: Carry Permit With You

    I carry my LTCF and if in a gun free area/state I will use it as a Ninja Star if needed
    Retired US Army
    NRA Life Member, GOA, USCCA
    "Artificial intelligence is no match for Natural Stupidity"

  2. #62
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Oakland Mills, Pennsylvania
    (Juniata County)
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    Default Re: Carry Permit With You

    Quote Originally Posted by tl_3237 View Post
    Seems that failure to produce on demand either the DL or LTCF engender similar rebuttable presumptions of non-licensure. Post production of both licenses exculpate one from that presumption although in the case of the DL the likely law enforcement action was a mere citation while that of the LTCF was potentially an arrest.
    Except there are some key differences. Specifically under drivers license

    Every licensee shall possess a driver's license issued to the licensee at all times when driving a motor vehicle and shall exhibit the license upon demand.

    Where as the demands of a by a LEO on a person with a LTCF must first be lawful. Secondly it goes on to say: At time of arrest if it is not produced it creates an assumption of non-licensure until proved, which should be easy enough to do. Regardless it does not say anywhere that the person must keep their license with them, with their firearm, or within 500 miles of them. It says the license must be produced upon lawful demand. Given that there is a list maintained by PSP, according to the law 24/7/365 it could be argued that providing a correct name would put you under exceptions to the act, although that wouldn't be my first tact.

    Recently I was investigated for a security clearance. There were several documents which she demanded to see including my passport. I was not expected to have these documents on my person, but was given a reasonable time in which to obtain them.

    Sure officer, you can see my LTCF, I keep it in my burn box with all of my official government documents, since keeping them in my wallet would be irresponsible, especially since there is no legal means for a replacement LTCF to be issued. DO you want to follow me to my babysitters and then home, or just meet me there in an hour or so.
    Last edited by PAMedic=F|A=; April 4th, 2018 at 03:11 PM.
    "Cives Arma Ferant"

    "I know I'm not James Bond, that's why I don't keep a loaded gun under the pillow, or bang Russian spies on a regular basis." - GunLawyer001

  3. #63
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Media, PA, Pennsylvania
    (Delaware County)
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    32
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    Default Re: Carry Permit With You

    Quote Originally Posted by john9001 View Post
    So people can carry a gun with no problem but to carry a small card is a burden? I think some people are just looking for a argument.
    I would agree with you in some cases, however, in my case, I simply do not carry the original in case some overzealous cop decides he wants to try and confiscate it. At least, if some ill-informed officer misapplies the law and confiscates that day's open carry pistol along with my license, I still have the original at home and can still legally carry while I pursue the end of that officer's career.
    Junior

  4. #64
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Near Scranton, Pennsylvania
    (Lackawanna County)
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    Default Re: Carry Permit With You

    Quote Originally Posted by Democrat Gun Owner View Post
    Does showing a copy of your LTCF on your phone give permission to the officer to search your phone?

    Could you give partial consent to police to search the back seat of your car but not the trunk?

    I dont want to be the guinea pig fighting this question's answer out in court. I carry my LTCF.
    Quote Originally Posted by ViperGTS19801 View Post
    Partial consent hahahahah you're funny.

    For the record, I carry a high-quality, laminated copy of my LTCF, front and back. I have utilized it on multiple occasions (one including at Philadelphia International Airport, that was interesting) but never tried to pass it of as anything other than it is. When asked (demanded) for my license, I present this, and it works.

    I am very secure about my phone - it has a pin and times out after several failed unlock attempts. I would never use my phone to display anything other than the lock screen to a police officer, that's like giving my firearms serial number when I don't have to, I don't want it documented.
    My apologies for not being clearer. I do not believe you can give partial consent to a vehicle search. Thus, is allowing a police officer to look at a photo of your LTCF or auto insurance giving consent for him/her to search your entire phone? You can't give partial vehicle consent as I sardonically mentioned in my other post. Thus, why would one assume you can give consent to look at only one picture on your phone?

  5. #65
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    DuBois, Pennsylvania
    (Clearfield County)
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    Default Carrying permit card?

    I have a Concealed Permit here in Pennsylvania. Must I have that concealed permit card on me at all times while carrying? Have not seen this addressed anywhere. Thank You...

  6. #66
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Chambersburg, Pennsylvania
    (Franklin County)
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    Default Re: Carrying permit card?

    The law requires you to "upon lawful demand of a law enforcement officer, produce the license for inspection." (18 Pa.C.S. 6122). Technically, if you are carrying without your LTCF in your possession, you are not breaking any laws. It is only when you are unable to produce it per a lawful demand that an 'offense' occurs.
    .
    Bottom line - it's a good idea to make a habit of carrying it, but the risk of a problem if you forget it is probably fairly low, and you aren't automatically in violation of any law.

    IMO
    IANAL

  7. #67
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Erie, Pennsylvania
    (Erie County)
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    Default Re: Carrying permit card?

    6122. Proof of license and exception.
    (a) General rule.--When carrying a firearm concealed on or about one's person or in a vehicle, an individual licensed to carry a firearm shall, upon lawful demand of a law enforcement officer, produce the license for inspection. Failure to produce such license either at the time of arrest or at the preliminary hearing shall create a rebuttable presumption of nonlicensure.
    (b) Exception.--An individual carrying a firearm on or about his person or in a vehicle and claiming an exception under section 6106(b) (relating to firearms not to be carried without a license) shall, upon lawful demand of a law enforcement officer, produce satisfactory evidence of qualification for exception.
    (Dec. 19, 1988, P.L.1275, No.158, eff. 180 days; Apr. 22, 1997, P.L.73, No.5, eff. 60 days)
    Quote Originally Posted by cdi View Post
    A drop leg holster? A big clue indicating an Operator operating operationally, of course.

  8. #68
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
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    Erie, Pennsylvania
    (Erie County)
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    Default Re: Carrying permit card?

    Also, read this thread, which is the next thread in this sub-forum; http://forum.pafoa.org/showthread.php?t=327678

    Quote Originally Posted by cdi View Post
    A drop leg holster? A big clue indicating an Operator operating operationally, of course.

  9. #69
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    southcentral pa, Pennsylvania
    (Adams County)
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    Default Re: Carrying permit card?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gun View Post
    6122. Proof of license and exception.
    (a) General rule.--When carrying a firearm concealed on or about one's person or in a vehicle, an individual licensed to carry a firearm shall, upon lawful demand of a law enforcement officer, produce the license for inspection. Failure to produce such license either at the time of arrest or at the preliminary hearing shall create a rebuttable presumption of nonlicensure.
    (b) Exception.--An individual carrying a firearm on or about his person or in a vehicle and claiming an exception under section 6106(b) (relating to firearms not to be carried without a license) shall, upon lawful demand of a law enforcement officer, produce satisfactory evidence of qualification for exception.
    (Dec. 19, 1988, P.L.1275, No.158, eff. 180 days; Apr. 22, 1997, P.L.73, No.5, eff. 60 days)
    I make sure that my LTCF is on me at all times. It's that "time of arrest or preliminary hearing" that I want to avoid.

  10. #70
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Glockin, Pennsylvania
    (Montgomery County)
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    Default Re: Carrying permit card?

    Bottom line, just have it with you to avoid any jams.

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