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Thread: Some work on .38 Spec.
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October 23rd, 2017, 06:50 PM #11
Re: Some work on .38 Spec.
Hey Bang!
How I get away with it? Wish I knew what "it" you're speaking of. For pistol powders I generally test in 1 grain increments. This time out I didn't have enough sample bullets to do that so I picked beginning and a midrange charge weight. If you look at most of the published data you'll see there are a lot of powders that produce data that is very close to, if not a straight line function. You can even graph a few just add 0,0 to the data so you have 3 points. (most spreadsheet programs will generate a chart for you just choose the "scatter" type graph). Anyhow solving the graph for y = mx + b (b = 0) or just taking differences between the averages and the number of 0.1 grain increments I can estimate how much each additional tenth of a grain of powder produces in velocity. If 0.1 grain adds 15 fps and I need 75 fps more that means I need 0.5 grs. additional. If that is still less than max. I can now retest that bullet with that powder charge or a range of 0.1 gr on each side. Generally I find the loads I want somewhere in the mid-range of powder charge weights. That is unless I'm doing something like trying to reproduce the FBI .38 Special load, a 158 gr. lead hollow point at 900 fps, definitely +P range!
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities".
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October 24th, 2017, 01:52 AM #12
Re: Some work on .38 Spec.
Hey Bang! How I get away with it? Wish I knew what "it" you're speaking of
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October 24th, 2017, 05:38 PM #13
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October 25th, 2017, 03:54 AM #14Active Member
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Re: Some work on .38 Spec.
Low pressure = fast powder
High pressure = slow powder
For .38 Spl, AA5 is about the slowest powder I have found that works well, besides Unique for mid-range to near max loads with lead bullets.
Try AA2, Bullseye, Red Dot, or even 231/HP38, but AA2 is very hard to beat for .38 Spl.
I have never added filler to my loads. These are designed for .45-100 using smokeless where, for accuracy, the powder must be kept at the flash hole, sine there is SO little compared to case volume, and not drift all over that HUGE case. This is not something that little pistol cases need and there have been a LOT of folks who found their barrels bulged from the use of fillers over the years (see "ring barrel" in google).
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November 15th, 2017, 06:07 PM #15
Re: Some work on .38 Spec.
Last time on the range, firing my reloads in my S&W model 36, I tried muzzle at 12 o'clock, thump the gun, lower and fire....got a larger extreme spread than not doing it. So much for worrying about small charges in a .38 spl case needing ignition help.
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November 15th, 2017, 07:08 PM #16
Re: Some work on .38 Spec.
^^^ YEP! Sometimes I think it is a real crap-shoot! Even measuring charge weights for each cartridge we keep getting wide spreads! I've read articles in somewhere that state that overflash is a rare problem with pistol cartridges and one more apt to be found in large capacity rifle cartridges. But thinking about it wasn't there a system that put the primer at the front of the powder charge" Wasn't that the German "Needle Gun" system? Though I believe it used a paper cartridge.
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities".
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November 15th, 2017, 07:41 PM #17
Re: Some work on .38 Spec.
I'd have to look it up...been too long since read about needle guns.
I notice sometimes big differences in pressure required to seat the bullet, case to case. (.38 spl mix, mix including nickeled and non-nickeled) Sometimes the bullet goes in so easily I expect to find a split; but no...none. Weighing each charge, and assuming uniformity in bullets,I think neck/crimp tension would likely be the biggest factor in spread figures. That, or variations in bullets.
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November 15th, 2017, 08:36 PM #18Grand Member
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Re: Some work on .38 Spec.
This..............
Silhouette is a slower powder that needs pressure to burn correctly (not sure about AA5 but it is probably the same). I was working up a load with Silhouette in a 9mm and was getting low velocities and high ES. Until I hit a point where just a 0.2 grain increase in charge gave me a 50-80 fps increase in velocity (and ES decreased by over 1/2).
The .38 likes fast powders and no one ever uses a filler. Try a faster powder like Bullseye, 231 or Unique for your top end loads. Your problems should go away.Last edited by Delkal; November 15th, 2017 at 08:40 PM.
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November 16th, 2017, 07:12 PM #19
Re: Some work on .38 Spec.
Well Delkal, I gave up on 231 and Bullseye years ago. I 've had very good luck with A#5 for 158 gr. cast lead from Penn Bullets (actual wt. 160 grs.) at 5.4 & 5.5 gr. charge weights. The coated bullets tested here look like they'll be successful at around 6.1 grs. for A#5. Oddly enough the CFE-P was a go at 5.1 grs. I like A#5 because it works for all the pistol calibers I reload. The only down side I've found is the powder seems to degrade after it is opened. Loads developed when an 8 lbs. canister is new won't have the same velocities at the end of the canister. So henceforth I'll only buy 4, one pound cans at a time, at the most. At least as long as supplies stay reasonable!
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities".
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November 16th, 2017, 07:25 PM #20Grand Member
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