Trust or Individual for suppressors

**adidas4862** · October 16th, 2017, 08:34 PM

I am looking to purchase some suppressors. I've been reading and I think I want to go the Trust route but wanted to get some other opinions. Also does anyone know where I can get a good trust done?

**danhr** · October 16th, 2017, 08:42 PM

Even after 41F, I'd still recommend trust. You can add your family members on as owners and when you pass, it makes it pretty simple to give your NFA items to your family, because they are already owners

**GunLawyer001** · October 16th, 2017, 09:03 PM

Originally Posted by danhr

Even after 41F, I'd still recommend trust. You can add your family members on as owners and when you pass, it makes it pretty simple to give your NFA items to your family, because they are already owners

Trusts are an extra layer of complication during what is usually a mess of uncertainty. When you die, your executor or administrator has to read your mail and go through your stuff, trying to figure out what you've been up to, what you rented, what you borrowed, what you lent out, what auto-pay crap you set up that needs to be stopped.

What an NFA trust does, is double the paperwork.

If they need to hire a lawyer to explain what to do with the trust, why not just pay the lawyer to fill out the transfer form, tax-free to an heir?

As a practical matter, gun owners tend to be quirks in the family, so in most instances whatever toys you have are going to get sold off. Your heirs want the money, not whatever hobby you were into. Think about what you'd do if your Aunt Mildred left you her vast Beanie Baby collection. A trust makes it more complicated.

NFA trusts became popular because of the CLEO signature requirement, which was (in places like Philadelphia) a near-absolute barrier. Since July of last year, the CLEO signature requirement is GONE, taking with it the primary reason for spending money on a trust.

Not to mention that a lot of those trusts, even the ones sold by self-described experts, run into troubles at the death of the grantor. I've had new clients come to me complaining that the trust they bought because they were told it would make the estate easier, needed an expensive upgrade to become a perpetual trust that their heirs could continue to use.

Most people with NFA toys in trusts should probably be considering whether to transfer them to themselves now. Not looking for new reasons to use a trust.

BTW, I sold a lot of NFA LLC's, but anyone who calls me on this topic is now asked why they really need an entity at all. Most don't; a few do. I turn money away because this is a profession, not a cell phone kiosk at the mall.

**Wildbill990** · October 16th, 2017, 09:20 PM

I'd also go with an individual form 1/4. One reason why I didn't get into NFA till May since I no longer needed the BS Cleo sig. I just got approved in 5 months for my form 1. Trusts are taking a year+, whether that continues to be the trend in the long run remains to be seen.

**HRoark** · October 17th, 2017, 10:09 AM

I was lucky enough to live somewhere where the cleo would sign, so I never felt the need for a trust. My NFA stuff still never goes anywhere without me, so individual transfers are all I will ever need. Added bonus now is they process faster thru the ATF.

IMO, if you don't have an actual need to share NFA stuff with other people when you won't be around, you DO NOT need a trust.

**Xringshooter** · October 19th, 2017, 12:32 PM

Unless you plan on letting someone use the suppressor at a different location and you will not be around, you really don't need a trust. If you're worried about what happens to the suppressor (or other NFA items) when you die, don't. NFA items can be transferred tax free to your heirs via a ATF form 5 which any FFL/SOT can help the heir with.

As GL said, the trust just adds more problems when you pass if it isn't written/worded correctly.

Right now, I am getting Form 4's (individual) back in 6 months. Form 4's (individual) sent in in April are coming back, Form 4's (trusts) sent in Nov 2016 are still somewhere in the system.

**j_h_smith** · October 19th, 2017, 02:34 PM

I have NFA firearms in a trust and owned as an individual. I believe that with the new laws on the gun trusts, it has taken the advantage out of the trust owning those firearms and NFA devices. It would seem that since everyone listed on the trust now has to go through a BATF background check, Trusts are taking a lot longer than individual applications.

As for the NFA devices surviving you, I'm not sure my wife will ever be interested in keeping my toys. So they would probably be sold anyway.

Each individual's situation is going to be different, so there is no cookie cutter response that will fit everyone.