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Thread: Montgomery County Parks
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September 17th, 2008, 07:11 PM #1
Montgomery County Parks
Hey, while I was out walking today I noticed a few signs within the bounds of a Montgomery County park site:
"Montgomery County
Department of Parks
Recreation Area
No Hunting, trapping etc.
Firearms
Alcoholic beverages
Motorized vehicles
Littering, etc.
By order of the Montgomery County
Commissioner"
and
"Montgomery County Department of Parks
NO HUNTING
Carrying of Firearms, Bows, arrow, driving game etc.
is strictly prohibited
By order of
Montgomery County Commissioner"
The posted rules say just about the same junk and indicate that the rules are derived from a county code, the penalty for violation is a summary offense $300 fine and up to 90 days in jail.
Can they do that? I thought only State Parks had this restriction? The full rules posed say something to the effect of "no carrying firearms except under certain circumstances" or something...does that mean its ok with a permit?
Help me out here, thanks!
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September 17th, 2008, 07:21 PM #2Grand Member
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Re: Montgomery County Parks
It's legal to carry. I venture to say most county commissioners have no clue what the preemption laws are or mean. IMO most of those signs are CYA and nothing else. Recommendations made by county solicitors whose main purpose in life is to give poor legal advise to local leaders.
FUCK BIDEN
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September 17th, 2008, 08:09 PM #3
Re: Montgomery County Parks
Nope. They can't do that....well they ARE doing it but...really they aren't allowed to....
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September 17th, 2008, 08:16 PM #4
Re: Montgomery County Parks
its not like the guys in the county parks 4x4s with the single amber strobe are going to arrest anyone, or detain anyone for that matter. Could they ask you to leave? I guess CC wouldn't be a problem but it rules out OC.
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September 17th, 2008, 08:36 PM #5Grand Member
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September 18th, 2008, 02:02 AM #6
Re: Montgomery County Parks
Throw a rock in any direction and you will hit two trees with "No Firearms" signs before you nail a soccer mom and her golden retriever. I feel like they wouldn't go through the trouble of putting up all those signs if they didn't intend on enforcing them to some extent. It is absolutely amazing how ignorant people in power can be, or how they can purposely turn a blind eye to the law and do as they wish. The only way to rise above this is to become a lawyer, politician or a COP, and even then there are no guarantees... definitely FUBAR...
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September 18th, 2008, 10:55 AM #7Super Member
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Pennsylvania
(Montgomery County) - Posts
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Re: Montgomery County Parks
Just call in and ask to speak with someone in Risa's office and inquire about the preemption violation and how it opens the county up to lawsuits and as a taxpayer you would rather not have to pay for the county comissioner's ignorance of the law.
"If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom ... go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels nor arms. May your chains set lightly upon you and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen." Samuel Adams
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September 18th, 2008, 11:44 AM #8
Re: Montgomery County Parks
Do what I did here: http://www.pafoa.org/forum/concealed...nty-parks.html
Of course, you'll have to tailor your letter appropriately, but it has worked for me. Indiana County is working at resolving the issue, and the county commissioners even thanked me for writing in.
Like others, Montgomery County probably has an ordinance that predates the UFA's premption and never knew they had to amend their ordinance accordingly.
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September 18th, 2008, 12:47 PM #9
Re: Montgomery County Parks
Bullshit.
Several of these preempted ordinances have been overturned by PAFOA members. (See Stakowski's example above).
Several others are currently in the works.
Some resolve easily (letter or appearance) some require more persistence and effort.
It only takes one person and the right attitude.
If you think you can or you can't, you're always right.~Henry Ford I_________________________________________
danbus wrote: ...Like I said before, I open carry because you don't, I fight for all my rights because
you won't, I will not sit with my thumb up my bum and complain, because you will.
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September 18th, 2008, 02:18 PM #10
Re: Montgomery County Parks
______________
____________
___________________
September 19, 2008
Human Services Center
1430 DeKalb Street
Norristown, PA 19404-0311
To Whom It May Concern,
Upon visiting a Montgomery County Parks Department maintained recreational area I noted multiple signs and posted rules that stated in numerous ways that firearms were strictly prohibited on the property for any purpose. The County ordinances posted on the trailhead corkboard noted that violation of the posted rules, including the possession of a firearm, would result in a summary offence.
As you are aware, the Commonwealth’s Uniform Firearms Act (1995) reads, in part, as follows: 18 Pa. C.S. §6120. Limitation on the Regulation of Firearms and Ammunition. (a) General rule. No county, municipality or township may in any manner regulate the lawful ownership, possession, transfer or transportation of firearms, ammunition or ammuniŽtion components when carried or transported for purposes not prohibited by the laws of this commonwealth.
It was the intention of the state to preempt all local laws and ordinances with the implementation of the Uniform Firearms Act. Therefore, the regulations posted are not enforceable as they exist in violation of state law. Any arrest and attempted prosecution under the local ordinances posted at the County Park sites could potentially be met with lawsuits against the department, county and enforcing agencies.
I trust this is simply an oversight of the department and that you will amend the posted regulations to reflect state law so that the public may be properly informed of their rights, and to avoid confusion, wrongful arrest, detention or seizure of property by agencies that may be asked to enforce the posted regulations.
I would appreciate any clarification of the posted ordinances and signage you may be able to provide, citing appropriate state law or county code when and if possible, so that I may distribute it to other interested parties as accurately as possible. Likewise, I would like to be informed of any resolution to this issue so that I and others may abide by the law to the fullest extent.
Sincerely,
__________________
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