Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association

View Poll Results: Would you be okay with a bump fire stock ban in exchange for nation reciprocity

Voters
173. You may not vote on this poll
  • yes I would

    87 50.29%
  • No I would not

    86 49.71%
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  1. #121
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    Default Re: Poll: would you trade bump fire stocks for national reciprocity?

    I totally forgot about those silly things till now. Saw them years ago and laughed at them. Didn't want one then , don't want one now. But as the old saying goes , the fastest way to make some people want something they otherwise wouldn't want is to tell them they can't have it.
    I don't speak English , I talk American!

  2. #122
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    Default Re: Poll: would you trade bump fire stocks for national reciprocity?

    This is what the leftist think about banning Bump-fire stocks. This was posted on ammo.com. It will explain why I will not support the banning of anything firearm related.

    Read more: https://www.ammoland.com/2017/10/ohi...#ixzz4umATWp3J
    Under Creative Commons License: Attribution
    Follow us: @Ammoland on Twitter | Ammoland on Facebook


    And then consider this exchange between Nancy Pelosi and a reporter on Thursday:


    “There are going to be Republicans who resist this because they say, Give the gun control people an inch and they'll try to take a mile,” a reporter asked Pelosi at a press conference. “So how do you plan to overcome that when the truth is that you would like to go further?”

    “So what?” Pelosi responded. “They're going to say, You give them bump stock, it's going to be a slippery slope. I certainly hope so. But I don't think bump stock should be a substitute for the background check. By the way the background check is a compromise. There are many more things members want to do ….”

  3. #123
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    Default Re: Poll: would you trade bump fire stocks for national reciprocity?

    Ya that's not news bud.
    Montani Semper Liberi

  4. #124
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    Default Re: Poll: would you trade bump fire stocks for national reciprocity?

    In a way it’s good that we are split right down the middle- what it means to me is that neither side of the issue can be so easily dismissed as the fringe. We actually have to listen to each other.

  5. #125
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    Default Re: Poll: would you trade bump fire stocks for national reciprocity?

    The bump stock saved a lot of lives in Las Vegas. If you want to protect the right to own a bump stock, simply point out that it saved lives. Yes, it is crass to say so, and the point will be lost on some, but the truth of the matter is this kind of gun is less dangerous than most others. It is simply a waste of ammo, and the incredible firepower he laid down only served to get the crowd to disperse faster, and therefore saved lives.

    • The shooter would have had much better "luck" if he had simply aimed each shot.
    • He would have been harder to locate, and therefore had more time to kill.
    • He would have scored more hits before the crowd noticed and escaped
    • He would have been more accurate in his hits.


    I don't care if it hurts someone's feelings. Everyone at the concert is lucky he was using a bump stock.


    I posted something like this in another thread.
    Last edited by hog45; October 6th, 2017 at 09:14 PM. Reason: added list bullets
    Sic semper tyrannis

  6. #126
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    Default Re: Poll: would you trade bump fire stocks for national reciprocity?

    Quote Originally Posted by hog45 View Post
    The bump stock saved a lot of lives in Las Vegas. If you want to protect the right to own a bump stock, simply point out that it saved lives. Yes, it is crass to say so, and the point will be lost on some, but the truth of the matter is this kind of gun is less dangerous than most others. It is simply a waste of ammo, and the incredible firepower he laid down only served to get the crowd to disperse faster, and therefore saved lives.

    • The shooter would have had much better "luck" if he had simply aimed each shot.
    • He would have been harder to locate, and therefore had more time to kill.
    • He would have scored more hits before the crowd noticed and escaped
    • He would have been more accurate in his hits.


    I don't care if it hurts someone's feelings. Everyone at the concert is lucky he was using a bump stock.


    I posted something like this in another thread.
    I understand your assertion and your assumptions but am not sure you are correct or that it is a good angle to take.

    Depending on the skill of the shooter, more bullets could equal more casualties, especially if the targets are plentiful and grouped.

    The phrase fish in a barrel comes to mind.
    Montani Semper Liberi

  7. #127
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    Default Re: Poll: would you trade bump fire stocks for national reciprocity?

    Quote Originally Posted by gummy jones View Post
    I understand your assertion and your assumptions but am not sure you are correct or that it is a good angle to take.

    Depending on the skill of the shooter, more bullets could equal more casualties, especially if the targets are plentiful and grouped.

    The phrase fish in a barrel comes to mind.
    He had fish in a barrel. He chose to shoot them in the way that would get them all to run out of the barrel as fast as humanly possible and make it easy to locate him.

    It is a good thing he did it that way or the massacre would have been several times worse.
    Sic semper tyrannis

  8. #128
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    Default Re: Poll: would you trade bump fire stocks for national reciprocity?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike_Golf View Post
    In a way it’s good that we are split right down the middle- what it means to me is that neither side of the issue can be so easily dismissed as the fringe. We actually have to listen to each other.
    No, it's terrible that we are split down the middle because it means that half of the supposedly pro-gun people on this forum are too apathetic to things that they don't specifically care about to understand that giving up anything at any time is just one less thing that we have. There is no "compromise" because we get nothing. And appeasement will work about as well as it did in the late 1930s. I made a lengthy comment in another thread explaining my feelings about it so I won't type it all out again. However the basic premise is that, regardless of the fact that I think bump fire stocks are stupid gimmicky over-priced range toys, the principle of bending over and taking one up the pooper just to make the likes of Jimmy Kimmel and Chucky Schumer feel a little less like crying is nonsense. If they were going to take bump fire stocks and then never ever ever ever come after guns again, it still would be a shitty deal. But that's not anywhere near the truth.

    And that they have succeeded at a time where we control every bit of the Federal government (except for all those lifetime Obama judges), it's shameful. Anyone who says "who cares about bump fire stocks if it will get them off our asses" is a hypocrite. It's the principle of it... so don't expect all the bump fire owners to give a shit when your government and the NRA are willing to toss aside something that you DO care about as a sacrificial lamb to very temporarily satiate the gun grabbers.

    Get your shit straight people. Bump fire stocks are NOT a big deal. Banning bump fire stocks with the endorsement of Republicans and the NRA... that is a BIG DAMN DEAL.

  9. #129
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    Default Re: Poll: would you trade bump fire stocks for national reciprocity?

    Quote Originally Posted by BobGun View Post
    This is what the leftist think about banning Bump-fire stocks. This was posted on ammo.com. It will explain why I will not support the banning of anything firearm related.

    Read more: https://www.ammoland.com/2017/10/ohi...#ixzz4umATWp3J
    Under Creative Commons License: Attribution
    Follow us: @Ammoland on Twitter | Ammoland on Facebook


    And then consider this exchange between Nancy Pelosi and a reporter on Thursday:


    “There are going to be Republicans who resist this because they say, Give the gun control people an inch and they'll try to take a mile,” a reporter asked Pelosi at a press conference. “So how do you plan to overcome that when the truth is that you would like to go further?”

    “So what?” Pelosi responded. “They're going to say, You give them bump stock, it's going to be a slippery slope. I certainly hope so. But I don't think bump stock should be a substitute for the background check. By the way the background check is a compromise. There are many more things members want to do ….”
    This is exactly the point. Anti-gunners want the whole pie but are willing to take it a bite at a time. Gun rights advocates are apparently willing to dish it out one bite at a time as long as it looks like they still have a small slice left over for themselves. It's hardly complicated.

  10. #130
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    Default Re: Poll: would you trade bump fire stocks for national reciprocity?

    Quote Originally Posted by gummy jones View Post
    Some one please correct me if I'm wrong but we endlessly defend (rightfully so) msrs as crucial self defense pieces that are entirely different from heavily regulated machine guns. We make memes about stupid media folk who don't know the difference. Cranks and bump fire stocks are designed as an alternative to those regulated items and most of us, at least up until last week, would have agreed that they are a tool designed to skirt the nfa rules and allow the function of an msr to be altered in a way that allows it to perform similarly (kind of) to that which we make fun of liberals for confusing our rifles with.

    I'm not a fan banning inanimate objects. Slippery slopes are real, especially with elitist oligarchs. I'm a Christian who believes we live in a fallen world with real evil at work constantly - a scum bag killed those folks, not a gun and certainly not a stock, but do 50 percent of you actually maintain that a function altering device like a bump fire is exactly the same as a magazine or flashlight or single point sling or any other accessory?

    In my mind they are very different - way more so than pistol braces, etc. Again, let me emphasize that I am not saying bans are reasonable because of the difference, I'm just saying I don't easily get from bump fire stocks to normal capacity magazines. Pelosi wanted what she wants 2 weeks ago, 2 years ago and 2 decades ago - it's the same playbook. When she is gone there will be another loon to take her place.

    The hysteria all around is palpable and as one who does not think our main lobbyist allies have given up, I'm trying to take a deep breath. Bans aside, heck pretend I'm asking this September 17th, explain how i am wrong that a bump fire and forward grip are different. I'm asking in earnest. Yes, 'merica is an acceptable answer, I'm just wondering if there are others.

    Flame suit on
    Bear with me if you're aware of the history, but if you really want to know my feelings about it, here it is.

    So because the government decides 100 years ago that people can't be responsible enough to drink alcohol, crime related to Prohibition skyrockets. In response, Big Brother decides that guns = bad. Under the original NFA intention, they wanted to treat all pistols and revolvers the same as machine guns. Imagine that. Fortunately, people were successful in getting them excluded but that's how close we were to basically kissing all non-long-guns good bye. Someone decided a long time ago that more than one bullet per pull of the trigger was too much for us lowly common folks... and that becomes the new normal. They drew that arbitrary line in the sand and that line ended up where it did just because they couldn't get more at the time. I would hazard a guess that if they had been successful in including pistols and revolvers in the NFA, the common belief among all the rifle and shotgun owners of 2017 would be that pistols are somehow too evil, much in the same way that we just ACCEPT that machine guns are horrifically excessive but semi autos are fine and dandy.

    It's all a slippery slope. Tell people something is what it is for long enough, even if it's not, and they will start to believe it. Machine guns are just commonly accepted as way over the line. Forget the fact that one of the primary points of the 2A is to allow the people to protect themselves from a tyrannical government... the same government that gets all kinds of full auto goodies that we peons don't get to touch in 2017.

    The reason you think that maybe getting rid of bump fire stocks is, if I'm understanding you correctly, because they are designed to skirt the spirit of the NFA. As was pointed out by others, the NFA is just some bullshit piece of legislation that was passed to take shit away from the people. Now we are stuck with it. Even if we accept that it is the law of the land and we must abide by it (which we do as lawful gun owners), now we have to suddenly redefine what it says because maybe it wasn't specific enough? So we go from "1 pull / 1 bullet = okay" to now saying that "too many bullets too fast =/= okay"?

    That's not a slippery slope, my friend... that's a goddamn cliff.


    And there is really very little difference between banning bump fire stocks and banning pistol braces. Hell, what about banning bullpups? The Mossberg Shockwave? Probably should ban .410 revolvers like the Judge because the shallow rifling is all that is keeping them legal. And when we come right down to it... there is no difference between this and standard capacity magazines like you said... the bottom line is that someone who doesn't like guns and doesn't trust Joe Citizen with guns drew a line in the sand a long time ago. If that line has machine guns on one side and pistols on the other, that (as I pointed out previously) was just the luck of the draw... and now we all assume there was some higher wisdom and logic to the decision. In 1968, someone else redrew that line to create Federal licensing of dealers and stopping mail order sales... something that we today have become so accustomed to that we just figure that it makes logical sense. In 1986, someone else drew another line that basically was the nail in the coffin for full auto (all in the name of "compromise"). In 1993 someone else redrew that line to include magazines over 10 rounds and stupid shit like bayonet lugs and flash hiders. If that didn't sunset, we'd all have pretty much accepted by now that 10 round is okay and 11 rounds is the devil's work.

    You have to stop letting them redraw the line. You certainly have to stop it from happening when the gun grabbers are back on their heels in all branches of the government. What is going on right now is an embarrassment. I have no doubt that people *think* that they are doing the best thing by throwing them a bone, but that's misguided bullshit.

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