Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #1
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    Default Brandishing and firing off a shot?

    I have often read that you should not pull a firearm unless it is to shoot an immediate threat. I have always disagreed with this. There are are cases where pulling a gun and "brandishing" it or firing a warning shot (hey Biden promotes this) can defuse a bad situation without killing anyone. I realize laws are all over the place (and pa does not have a brandishing law). depending on the state you are in.

    What do you think? Should brandishing and firing warning shots be legal or not?


    The story that prompted this discussion. (Assuming it all went down the way she claimed) A woman was being attacked. Pepper spray did not stop the attack. She fired warning shots which did end the attack. No one was killed. The woman may be charged with discharging a firearm.


    http://www.postbulletin.com/news/loc...fc679f5b3.html

    Winona woman fires gun to chase away attackers

    WINONA — A woman being attacked fired a weapon Friday in Winona.

    Winona Police Chief Paul Bostrack said no one was hurt Friday when the victim, a 26-year-old woman, was allegedly being assaulted by a group of people with whom she has been having an ongoing dispute.


    According to a Winona police report, the woman came out of a residence in the 1700 block of West Seventh Street and was putting a child in the back seat of a car when she was approached by a group of men and women who argued with her, punched her and hit her with a pole.

    During the fight and argument, the woman's cousin used pepper spray to try to disperse the crowd. When that did not work, the woman told police she did not feel safe, so she removed a gun from her purse and fired three shots in the air, according to the report. At that time, the alleged assailants fled.

    When police arrived, no one was outside, but witnesses directed police to the home where the woman went after the fight. She told police she had fired the shots and handed over a 9 mm Smith and Wesson handgun. The gun had ammunition similar to the spent casings found outside. Bostrack said the woman has a license to carry a firearm.

    Currently, no one is under arrest, and no one has been charged. Bostrack said the county attorney's office will determine whether to charge those who allegedly assaulted the woman or charge the woman with discharging a firearm.
    Last edited by internet troll; September 18th, 2017 at 12:33 PM.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Brandishing and firing off a shot?

    Quote Originally Posted by internet troll View Post
    I have often read that you should not pull a firearm unless it is to shoot an immediate threat. I have always disagreed with this. There are are cases where pulling a gun and "brandishing" it or firing a warning shot (hey Biden promotes this) can defuse a bad situation without killing anyone. I realize laws are all over the place (and pa does not have a brandishing law). depending on the state you are in.

    What do you think? Should brandishing and firing warning shots be legal or not?


    The story that prompted this discussion. A woman was being attacked. Pepper spray did not stop the attack. She fired warning shots which did end the attack. No one was killed. The woman may be charged with discharging a firearm.


    http://www.postbulletin.com/news/loc...fc679f5b3.html

    Winona woman fires gun to chase away attackers

    WINONA — A woman being attacked fired a weapon Friday in Winona.

    Winona Police Chief Paul Bostrack said no one was hurt Friday when the victim, a 26-year-old woman, was allegedly being assaulted by a group of people with whom she has been having an ongoing dispute.


    According to a Winona police report, the woman came out of a residence in the 1700 block of West Seventh Street and was putting a child in the back seat of a car when she was approached by a group of men and women who argued with her, punched her and hit her with a pole.

    During the fight and argument, the woman's cousin used pepper spray to try to disperse the crowd. When that did not work, the woman told police she did not feel safe, so she removed a gun from her purse and fired three shots in the air, according to the report. At that time, the alleged assailants fled.

    When police arrived, no one was outside, but witnesses directed police to the home where the woman went after the fight. She told police she had fired the shots and handed over a 9 mm Smith and Wesson handgun. The gun had ammunition similar to the spent casings found outside. Bostrack said the woman has a license to carry a firearm.

    Currently, no one is under arrest, and no one has been charged. Bostrack said the county attorney's office will determine whether to charge those who allegedly assaulted the woman or charge the woman with discharging a firearm.
    I think her mistake was firing the pistol into the air. There are documented cases of people being killed by bullets fired as warning shots by armed citizens. A gun is not a 'noise maker'. It is a lethal weapon that fires a projectile each time the trigger is pulled.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Brandishing and firing off a shot?

    Quote Originally Posted by American1776 View Post
    I think her mistake was firing the pistol into the air. There are documented cases of people being killed by bullets fired as warning shots by armed citizens. A gun is not a 'noise maker'. It is a lethal weapon that fires a projectile each time the trigger is pulled.
    The odds are low, but you are correct, they are there. How about if she fire at the ground or wall where no one was standing. Or into the ground in a field? Basically a place where no one would get harmed. Would that make it okay to do a warning shot?

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    Default Re: Brandishing and firing off a shot?

    My old brigade commander, CoL. Michael Steele from black hawk down, gave me some great advice before my first deployment:. "The only warning shot you are allowed to take, is your first shot. And that shot is a warning to all the ass holes next to the guy you just killed, that if they don't surrender, they are going to end up like him."

    I took that to heart. You use tools the way they are intended. A protective firearm is a tool and it was not intended to look scary. If you feel your life is in danger... Use it and use it properly.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Brandishing and firing off a shot?

    If drawing stops the threat that's fine. But the only warning shot should be center mass. I don't agree with shooting at a random place, shoot at the threat. Continue to fire those center mass warning shots until the threat ceases to be one.
    Rules are written in the stone,
    Break the rules and you get no bones,
    all you get is ridicule, laughter,
    and a trip to the house of pain.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Brandishing and firing off a shot?

    Pistol bullets can ricochet (skip) from the ground when at a shallow angle to the ground.

    Steeper angles will likely penetrate, but there can be a stone or rock just under the surface, causing a more direct ricochet upwards from the ground.

    I think, realistically, a person under attack... even knowing these possibilities...would not be acting with indifference if the immediate need is to discourage a threat to life and limb and the potential for bad outcomes is low and random.

    I wonder how difficult it is to build a case in chief on the reckless endangering of another when another cannot be identified and produced.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Brandishing and firing off a shot?

    I do not see a value in brandishing or in warning shots. If I have to draw my gun because of a life threatening situation. He aggressor is going to see the gun at that time. I would, if the situation allowed it, give a verbal warning. A warning shot just wastes a bullet you might need. The woman is cites as having fired 3 warning shots. Glad she did not get into a gunfight.

    As cited above, shots into the air can hurt of even kill a person when falling to the ground. That to me is reckless endangerment. I am in PA. We have a very clear law that makes it unwise to draw a gun unless you see a deadly weapon or are in grave danger of serious bodily harm. If those situations occur, just shoot the assilant.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Brandishing and firing off a shot?

    NO WARNING SHOTS ! Bidens promotes this ? Well we all know how he F-- -- Ks up everything !You draw your firearm to stop immediate threat of death ! You disagree with this ? well you could quite possibly face a lot of time in jail ! My very first arrest was a gentle soul that could not put up with fireworks on his block,drew his firearm to have it stopped and accidentally/intentionally shot the guy to death,one shot.i remember bringing him in and told him I need all your jewelry off including his crucifix ! Remorse on his face and terror in his eyes at what he had done 40 minutes ago ! His expression on his face is etched into my mind after 35 years ! MDT

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Brandishing and firing off a shot?

    Quote Originally Posted by internet troll View Post
    The odds are low, but you are correct, they are there. How about if she fire at the ground or wall where no one was standing. Or into the ground in a field? Basically a place where no one would get harmed. Would that make it okay to do a warning shot?
    If the bullet strikes the pavement, wall, or a rock, the ricochet will take the bullet in unpredictable directions at a similar velocity. The gun is not a noise maker. Every shot fired outside of a dedicated range, is an act that is capable of inflicting death or grave bodily harm. Warning shots are a very bad idea, that are unfortunately perpetuated by TV.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Brandishing and firing off a shot?

    There's the saying "Every bullet that you fire has a lawyer attached." I'd be very wary of drawing my gun until it's time to start shooting center-of-mass.

    Aside from that, I'm not firing warning shots because I want to keep what hearing I have left.

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