Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #1
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    Default Same powder, newer lot, big difference

    Needed to prepare a 45/70 for an anticipated deer hunting trip where only straight walled cases are permitted for rifle season. Had to crack open a new pound of powder. Original work up was done about a decade ago. Since my load was on the low side to begin with I went right to my pet load.
    Loaded my standby trapdoor load of 26.0 grs. 5744, 405 gr half ww/pb Lee cast, sized .458, lubed with BAC, dacron filler, and a Federal primer.
    Results were WTH, pizza pan groups at 100 yds. Up to this point that load could group better than I could shoot!
    Before looking at the rifle as a cause I loaded up a few with another powder, 2400, that I documented from my original testing years ago.
    They shot very well.
    Over the years I have seen slight variations when going to different lots of powder but never anything this dramatic.
    Perhaps the rumors of certain powders being changed over the years have some credence?
    Anyone else ever experience this?
    It ain't what they call you, it's what you answer to.

  2. #2
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    Levittown, Pennsylvania
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    Default Re: Same powder, newer lot, big difference

    I had developed a load for my trapdoor that printed fairly decently and one day it opened up. There was one variable I didn't follow up on though. The (1888) round rod bayonet would creep out on recoil. I tried turning the retainer around and that worked. No more rod creep. But that's when the group opened up.

    I had read that a loose retainer (my term, can't think of the proper nomenclature at the moment) can cause poor groups. Might be worth a look.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Same powder, newer lot, big difference

    Thanks Bang, but the loads are trapdoor level in a Handi-rifle. However your advice will probably help someone else, and I'll keep it in mind if I ever work with one of those.
    It ain't what they call you, it's what you answer to.

  4. #4
    Join Date
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    Apolacon Township, Pennsylvania
    (Susquehanna County)
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    Default Re: Same powder, newer lot, big difference

    Curious. Did you chrono the original load and the load from the current powder lot? At least then you'd have a noticeable difference in velocities to point to.


    "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities".

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
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    Brookville, Pennsylvania
    (Jefferson County)
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    Default Re: Same powder, newer lot, big difference

    Quote Originally Posted by cephas View Post
    Thanks Bang, but the loads are trapdoor level in a Handi-rifle. However your advice will probably help someone else, and I'll keep it in mind if I ever work with one of those.
    Handi Rifles tend to prefer .459" to even .460" for cast.

    .458" for jacketed.


    I'm a Handiholic, the .458 caliber guns being my favorite. ...and yeah, they like slightly oversized for cast. Part of the reason being is the Microgroove rifling having shallower rifling that doesn't grip as well. That, and the slight variations in the bore.

    You will find others at Graybeardoutdoor's forum that have expressed the same with the .458" Handi's.
    Last edited by knight0334; October 1st, 2017 at 11:41 AM.
    RIP: SFN, 1861, twoeggsup, Lambo, jamesjo, JayBell, 32 Magnum, Pro2A, mrwildroot, dregan, Frenchy, Fragger, ungawa, Mtn Jack, Grapeshot, R.W.J., PennsyPlinker, Statkowski, Deanimator, roland, aubie515

    Don't end up in my signature!

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
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    Default Re: Same powder, newer lot, big difference

    Well I was mistaken, not unusual. Went and dusted off my note book and sizer, the Lee drops .460 and my sizer is .459.
    My notes show a bore of .457 with a cerrosafe cast. For giggles I slugged the barrel this morning and it miked .4575.
    For handiholic reference the serial number indicates a 2007 production.
    I do have data recorded from initial work up. (Av 1255 fps with a sd of 9.1)
    Good idea to check new loads to old, will try later on.
    Reaffirms to me not to take anything for granted in hand loading.
    It ain't what they call you, it's what you answer to.

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