Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #21
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    Default Re: Anyone have an OC encounter with armed guards?

    I've seen them training in a classroom at a range several times. I used to start shooting auto and every single one of them would run to the range window and lick the window until I was done while the teacher was yelling at them to get back in their chairs.

    I personally know one and he is squared away, and on this forum, but he is former Air Force.
    http://forum.pafoa.org/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=5230&dateline=1441069  448

  2. #22
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    Default Re: Anyone have an OC encounter with armed guards?

    Like with any job you have those "special folks" I am not a guard but I would think that situational awareness would be a big part of their job. One would think that common sense would also be a requirement but it seems to be a rarity. At my job I occasional run into them restocking an ATM, I make a wide pass away from them so as not to startle them. Some of them are oblivious and are both facing the atm. Someone planning on robbing them isn't going to be OC-ing in a holster. I am pretty sure if one walked up to me and started having a melt down I would tell him to F-off and go about my business. I tend to treat others as they treat me, not all the time but a good portion of it. In the OP's case I am very glad that the angry man is not a LEO or may never become one with that attitude.

  3. #23
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    Default Re: Anyone have an OC encounter with armed guards?

    Quote Originally Posted by chp1911 View Post
    Look at the retail theft act. you CAN detain someone for retail theft.
    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...eXRCx0oyEcgYMg
    Umm...
    (d) Detention.--A peace officer, merchant or merchant's employee or an agent under contract with a merchant ... may detain the suspect in a reasonable manner...
    Per the language quoted:
    • *I* can do nothing.
    • Armored car personnel *may* be considered "agent under contract", but I doubt it.
    • Armed/unarmed security employed or contracted by the store, sure.


    Unless I'm missing something...

  4. #24
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    Default Re: Anyone have an OC encounter with armed guards?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sgt.K View Post
    Umm...Per the language quoted:
    • *I* can do nothing.
    • Armored car personnel *may* be considered "agent under contract", but I doubt it.
    • Armed/unarmed security employed or contracted by the store, sure.


    Unless I'm missing something...
    d) Detention.--A peace officer, merchant or merchant's
    employee or an agent under contract with a merchant, who has
    probable cause to believe that retail theft has occurred or is
    occurring on or about a store or other retail mercantile
    establishment and who has probable cause to believe that a
    specific person has committed or is committing the retail theft
    may detain the suspect in a reasonable manner for a reasonable
    time on or off the premises for all or any of the following
    purposes: to require the suspect to identify himself, to verify
    such identification, to determine whether such suspect has in
    his possession unpurchased merchandise taken from the mercantile
    establishment and, if so, to recover such merchandise, to inform
    a peace officer, or to institute criminal proceedings against
    the suspect. Such detention shall not impose civil or criminal
    liability upon the peace officer, merchant, employee, or agent
    so detaining.

    I was referring to Spandexlurch's post
    Last edited by chp1911; September 15th, 2017 at 10:00 AM.
    We the people love our country so let the government fear us.

  5. #25
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    Default Re: Anyone have an OC encounter with armed guards?

    Quote Originally Posted by chp1911 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sgt.K View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by chp1911 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by spandexlurch View Post
    According to my ACT-235 Training I can only arrest someone if I see them commit a felony. IE: I witness someone committing a murder, and I chose to and or am able to, I could arrest that person and turn them over to the police. If I see someone steal a candy bar from a store, there is nothing I can do. An Armed guard/officer's arrest powers in PA do not exceed that of the average citizen. As far as I know there is no actual citizens arrest in PA that is codified. I know that with my ACT-235 certification I could become a bounty hunter, constable, security officer, or any job that requires being armed while working except a police officer. To become a LEO in PA you must have at the bare minimum ACT-120 and be hired by a police municipality.

    As far as LEOSA, I don't believe armed security qualifies, being that we are still private citizens and we don't work for a police unit. Also as far as I know LEOSA would only apply to those that are active/retired police that choose to do security work as a second job.
    Look at the retail theft act. you CAN detain someone for retail theft.
    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...eXRCx0oyEcgYMg
    Umm...Per the language quoted:
    • *I* can do nothing.
    • Armored car personnel *may* be considered "agent under contract", but I doubt it.
    • Armed/unarmed security employed or contracted by the store, sure.


    Unless I'm missing something...
    d) Detention.--A peace officer, merchant or merchant's
    employee or an agent under contract with a merchant, who has
    probable cause to believe that retail theft has occurred or is
    occurring on or about a store or other retail mercantile
    establishment and who has probable cause to believe that a
    specific person has committed or is committing the retail theft
    may detain the suspect in a reasonable manner for a reasonable
    time on or off the premises for all or any of the following
    purposes: to require the suspect to identify himself, to verify
    such identification, to determine whether such suspect has in
    his possession unpurchased merchandise taken from the mercantile
    establishment and, if so, to recover such merchandise, to inform
    a peace officer, or to institute criminal proceedings against
    the suspect. Such detention shall not impose civil or criminal
    liability upon the peace officer, merchant, employee, or agent
    so detaining.

    I was referring to Spandexlurch's post
    You said "you CAN" detain someone. While (I assume) you were responding directly to his statement regarding the candy bar, lurch was also discussing arrest powers and differences between ACT-235 and ACT-120. I was clarifying that a person with ACT-235, unless actually employed or contracted by the affected retailer, has no more authority than John Q. Public in dealing with retail theft (e.g. none), just so others reading this thread won't assume you meant the global "you" without reading the link.

    My apologies if my wording corrupted my meaning.

  6. #26
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    Default Re: Anyone have an OC encounter with armed guards?

    They were probably jealous of your CZ. They were probably issued Glocks with 5 rubber bullets from PRNJ.


    Quote Originally Posted by Manxdriver View Post
    I always ask the one working on the ATM if he has any free samples.
    While OCing? That's the real test.


    Quote Originally Posted by rwilson452 View Post
    The Last time I saw an armed guard in an armored car I was coming out of my local gun store with my 1911 on my hip. They were getting their goods out to make a delivery to the bank across the street. They were in my strong side. I'm sure they saw I was armed. I waved and they waved back. We all went about our business.
    I walked into a Giant about 2 weeks ago right beside of 2 armed guards, looked like they had full-sized 40s or 45s. I was CCing. I actually stepped aside and let him have the pathway with his cart. No eye contact or acknowledgment. The guy with the cart was a lefty too.
    Last edited by alpacaheat; September 15th, 2017 at 11:06 AM.
    Galations 6:9...And let us not grow weary of doing good, for in due season we will reap, if we do not give up.
    Ashli Babbitt - Patriot

  7. #27
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    Default Re: Anyone have an OC encounter with armed guards?

    Quote Originally Posted by American1776 View Post
    interesting. so if they have arrest powers, does that mean they are covered under LEOSA?
    I'm pretty sure in NJ guards and CO's can only carry while working.
    "The first time any mans freedom is trodden on we're all damaged."JeanLucPicard

  8. #28
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    Default Re: Anyone have an OC encounter with armed guards?

    Quote Originally Posted by chp1911 View Post
    Look at the retail theft act. you CAN detain someone for retail theft.
    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...eXRCx0oyEcgYMg
    Key word is "detain" meaning, I can't put my cuffs on a person otherwise it falls under false arrest. I would also probably never attempt to arrest someone by myself because that's just asking for problems.

  9. #29
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    Default Re: Anyone have an OC encounter with armed guards?

    I was in downtown Philly, enjoying an ice cream on South Street. An armored truck pulled up, I guess making a deposit at the bank who's facade I was leaning against next to a trash can (for when I finished my cool treat and had to toss the paper). Dude gets out, carrying a heavy looking bag, sees me, and stops short of the door. He proceeds to tell me that I need to go somewhere else so he can do his job. I proceed to tell him he can go fuck himself. He tells me that he supports my right to carry unless I'm near him and he's working. I told him to go fuck himself even harder. He huffs like the douchey little nitwit he is and scurries back to his truck, where he and his partner have an animated discussion about what a jerk I am and how they like to blow each other on their lunchbreak.

    After a few minutes, I finish my ice cream and toss the paper, and head back to my car. As I'm walking back up South Street, several PPD bike cops go shooting the other way, and as I drove past the armored truck, an older cop is talking to the guard on the sidewalk, explaining to him that I'm an asshole.

    I chuckled as I drove past. I wasn't in the mood for their crap on this particular day. Ever since, I haven't had any armored guards say a word to me, or even cast a second glance. I was even at the 15th Street Wawa in Allentown the other day while the ATM attendant was swapping out the cash magazines, with a red-haired A-Town cop standing right there. We said hello to each other and he smiled.
    Junior

  10. #30
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    Default Re: Anyone have an OC encounter with armed guards?

    Quote Originally Posted by ViperGTS19801 View Post
    I was in downtown Philly, enjoying an ice cream on South Street. An armored truck pulled up, I guess making a deposit at the bank who's facade I was leaning against next to a trash can (for when I finished my cool treat and had to toss the paper). Dude gets out, carrying a heavy looking bag, sees me, and stops short of the door. He proceeds to tell me that I need to go somewhere else so he can do his job. I proceed to tell him he can go fuck himself. He tells me that he supports my right to carry unless I'm near him and he's working. I told him to go fuck himself even harder. He huffs like the douchey little nitwit he is and scurries back to his truck, where he and his partner have an animated discussion about what a jerk I am and how they like to blow each other on their lunchbreak.

    After a few minutes, I finish my ice cream and toss the paper, and head back to my car. As I'm walking back up South Street, several PPD bike cops go shooting the other way, and as I drove past the armored truck, an older cop is talking to the guard on the sidewalk, explaining to him that I'm an asshole.

    I chuckled as I drove past. I wasn't in the mood for their crap on this particular day. Ever since, I haven't had any armored guards say a word to me, or even cast a second glance. I was even at the 15th Street Wawa in Allentown the other day while the ATM attendant was swapping out the cash magazines, with a red-haired A-Town cop standing right there. We said hello to each other and he smiled.
    Key Word ! Douchey little nitwit !

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