Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
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    Mercer, Pennsylvania
    (Mercer County)
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    Default Re: Was this a justified draw?

    Quote Originally Posted by Democrat Gun Owner View Post
    Motorcyclist is lucky he isn't black...or a dog.
    Or a nurse.

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Ford City, PA, Pennsylvania
    (Armstrong County)
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    Default Re: Was this a justified draw?

    Not enough information from the video.

    Obviously the part that was played makes the officer look bad, but the reckless driving, which provoked the officer, mysteriously wasn't recorded? I mean how transparent is that?

    I bet if he just did 70 mph through a school zone, a lot of people would change their opinion.

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Lower Merion, Pennsylvania
    (Montgomery County)
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    348
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    14096633

    Default Re: Was this a justified draw?

    Quote Originally Posted by cham09 View Post
    This definitely could've went bad quickly...the way he just snuck up on him with his gun drawn already (and held against his stomach like he's trying to hide it)....
    I chuckled when I saw this in the text on the video, but wasn't expecting to see it here.

    Its called retention position.

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Central Jersey, New Jersey
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    Default Re: Was this a justified draw?

    I just read he was suspended. It didn't say if it was with or without pay.
    "The first time any mans freedom is trodden on we're all damaged."JeanLucPicard

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Allentown, Pennsylvania
    (Lehigh County)
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    1,217
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    Default Re: Was this a justified draw?

    Quote Originally Posted by libra8 View Post
    I just read he was suspended. It didn't say if it was with or without pay.
    --ET

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Elkland, Pennsylvania
    (Tioga County)
    Age
    79
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    2,561
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    3960972

    Default Re: Was this a justified draw?

    I just read he was suspended. It didn't say if it was with or without pay.
    More than likely with pay. Unions you know.
    USNRET '61-'81

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    In the can, Pennsylvania
    (Montgomery County)
    Posts
    3,472
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    21474853

    Default Re: Was this a justified draw?

    Not really my area, but here's my $0.02.
    There are a few things going on here.
    As was mentioned, the firearm position is consistent with training for a close-in encounter, so it's a non-issue.
    The fact that he approached unannounced and unidentified with the weapon drawn is an issue.
    It looks to me like a guy that has had too many motorcycles zip away at 100mph, and he was trying to prevent that, but went about it incorrectly.
    I think that he wrongly assumed his lights were visible, and that his badge was visible clipped to his right pants pocket.
    But the camera angle shows that the biker cannot see the lights in his mirrors while standing upright, and he can't see the badge due to the officer's position.
    The lack of citation or report after he drew his firearm is problematic, and it makes me believe that at some point the officer realized that he did something incorrectly.
    It would have been better to get the license plate number first in case the biker fled, and then use the siren to get the biker's attention for a traffic stop.
    How can you have any cookies if you don't drink your milk?

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Dover, Pennsylvania
    (York County)
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    Default Re: Was this a justified draw?

    In the state of Washington there's also an ongoing debate about the legality of traffic enforcement in unmarked cars. The way I read the law it looks to be illegal as well.
    Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God.

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Levittown, Pennsylvania
    (Bucks County)
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    Default Re: Was this a justified draw?

    Unless vehicle code specifies only marked units may enforce, it comes down to if the motorist pulls over and stops for the unmarked vehicle, and the officer displays badge of authority upon approach on foot, the motorist is then on notice that it is a police officer and should conduct him/herself accordingly (not drive off and attempt to evade).

    If the vehicle is unmarked, the motorist should not be prosecuted for failure to pull over. Some departments advise the public to drive to a safe area, preferably a police station, and pulling over where other people are present. If they have a cell phone, dialing 911 and asking if they are aware of the unmarked and the present stop is known to them is a good idea.

    The officer suddenly appearing, plain clothes, gun in hand pointed at the cyclist needs disciplinary action and additional training. He could have been shot...if not by the cyclist, then by a nearby armed citizen mistaking the armed cop for an armed robber or hit man. Suddenly facing a stranger brandishing a hand gun has potential that the cyclist would take the hell off outta there. If that cop planned to shoot if that happened, when he caused the cyclist to flee to safety, he would have been shooting the unarmed cyclist in the back if he hit him, or surrounding vehicles and occupants. The entire scene has no redeeming qualities.

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    York, Pennsylvania
    (York County)
    Posts
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    2319309

    Default Re: Was this a justified draw?

    Quote Originally Posted by PA86 View Post
    I chuckled when I saw this in the text on the video, but wasn't expecting to see it here.

    Its called retention position.
    Good to know, never seen that or heard of that before (Im not a cop, and haven't been taught that in any of my classes). Thanks for the info.

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