Was this a justified use of a concealed carry gun?

**internet troll** · September 1st, 2017, 10:02 AM

A woman pulled a gun on two other women in a Walmart. As of now she has not been charged but the case has been submitted to the prosecutors office. What do you think? Is she justified pulling the gun? Will charges be brought against her?

I could not embed the video or find it on YouTube, but I have a direct link to the video where the woman pulls the gun below.

http://on.freep.com/2iKyRDO

Gun pulled in fight between back to school shoppers at Walmart in Michigan

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ers/623490001/
A gun was pulled after two pairs of women fought over the last notebook on a shelf at the Novi Towne Center Walmart on Monday afternoon, according to local media report
DETROIT — A gun was pulled after two pairs of women fought over the last notebook on a shelf at a Walmart in Michigan this week, according to police.

Novi Police Detective Scott Baetens told the Detroit Free Press that police have reviewed video footage of the Monday incident recorded on a witness' cellphone and have submitted the case to the Oakland County Prosecutor's Office for review.

The fight at the Novi Towne Center store involved two Farmington Hills residents, ages 46 and 32, and a mother and daughter from South Lyon, ages 51 and 20.

WCRZ-FM reported that the two Farmington Hills women were shopping for school supplies when one of them reached for the last notebook on the shelf. Police told the Free Press that the 20-year-old also reached for it.

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The two women pulled the 20-year-old’s hair, and the woman's mother was pushed aside before pulling out a gun, according to Fox2Detroit.

"She pulled out her firearm and tells them to stop attacking her daughter while pointing the gun at them,” Baetens was quoted as saying in a Fox2Detroit report.

The mother has a valid concealed pistol license, and police are not releasing what kind of gun was in her possession, Baetens told the Free Press. He said the names of the individuals involved will not be released at this time.

Baetens said he believes the South Lyon women purchased the notebook.

**scruff** · September 1st, 2017, 10:09 AM

Nope. No reasonable fear of serious bodily injury or death, so no justification to pull the gun. What a stupid move.

**MikeinPhilly** · September 1st, 2017, 10:18 AM

Originally Posted by scruff

Nope. No reasonable fear of serious bodily injury or death, so no justification to pull the gun. What a stupid move.

No reasonable fear? I would disagree since 2 women were in the middle of assualtibg her daughter and who knows how far they would take the beat down? Many time on this board there were articles posted of people dying from a fist fight.

While I am not saying it's justified I can see how the mother might fear serious injury or worse.

**scruff** · September 1st, 2017, 10:42 AM

Originally Posted by MikeinPhilly

No reasonable fear? I would disagree since 2 women were in the middle of assualtibg her daughter and who knows how far they would take the beat down? Many time on this board there were articles posted of people dying from a fist fight.

While I am not saying it's justified I can see how the mother might fear serious injury or worse.

A little shoving over a notebook at Walmart was life-threatening? Would you want to try to sell that to a jury? I wouldn't.

**free** · September 1st, 2017, 03:07 PM

Originally Posted by scruff

Nope. No reasonable fear of serious bodily injury or death, so no justification to pull the gun. What a stupid move.

Ditto.

But I will add: Over a FUCKING notebook!! Dumbasses!!!

**PAMedic=F|A=** · September 4th, 2017, 08:09 PM

Originally Posted by scruff

Nope. No reasonable fear of serious bodily injury or death, so no justification to pull the gun. What a stupid move.

I disagree. Any physical force can be deadly. I've seen people die from stupidly little things. I've seen people walk away from wrecks that should have killed them. There is a huge element of randomness.

Originally Posted by internet troll

Lol..... I know what you mean. I've broken up lots of fights as a teacher. When guys fight, they normally stop fighting right away and go into verbal mode. Girls want to kill each other. I've broken up fights where I've had to throw a girl over my shoulder and carried her to the center to get her away from the other girl and she was still struggling to get away and tear the other girls eyes out.

I helped break up a girl fight last year where I got the one girl separated and I to a room where another teacher said he would keep her in there. I went out to help get the other girl under control and get the crowd moving when the girl who was suppose to be in the room came zipping past me to get back at the other girl. I watched as another teacher literally tackled her to keep her from getting at the other girl again. Ask any teacher, they will take a guy fight over a girl fight any day.

A good point.

Chick fights are always to the death.

Originally Posted by scruff

Then you should watch the video. All I see is a little hair-pulling and grabbing at the notebook. No ground-and-pound, no kicking, no punching or slapping. It's a minor tussle, not a knock down-drag out fight. Try convincing a jury that that's a lethal-force situation.

And it takes less than a second for one to turn into the other, and longer than that to draw a gun, even if you're being smart and open carrying. 21 Feet, remember? Of course if mom was open carrying, I doubt this would have happened.

**Knightshift** · September 1st, 2017, 10:18 AM

Bet she's a road rager too

**littlefitz** · September 1st, 2017, 10:29 AM

Not as good video as the one posted above, but here's a news account of what happened.

**cham09** · September 1st, 2017, 10:45 AM

I'm not a lawyer....but from what I can tell from just that short video, I would say no not justified. Someone pulling someone's hair to me is not a lethal attack, and I'm not a believer in using a firearm as a "de-escalator", meaning if I'm drawing my firearm then the situation has already met the criteria to use it and it will not be drawn for anything less. She appears to be using it to to "hold them".

**scruff** · September 1st, 2017, 10:52 AM

Holy crap, I assumed it was a computer, but it was only a paper notebook? Not that it makes a difference, but come on, people. I'm not going to wrestle someone for an item off the shelf, even if I got there first. It's a fucking notebook, not medicine for my dying kid. Find another one in Walmart. Walk next door to Office Depot or Dollar General. Don't debase yourself by wrestling assholes in a Walmart aisle. Seriously.