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  1. #1
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    Default Was this a justified use of a concealed carry gun?

    A woman pulled a gun on two other women in a Walmart. As of now she has not been charged but the case has been submitted to the prosecutors office. What do you think? Is she justified pulling the gun? Will charges be brought against her?

    I could not embed the video or find it on YouTube, but I have a direct link to the video where the woman pulls the gun below.



    http://on.freep.com/2iKyRDO



    Gun pulled in fight between back to school shoppers at Walmart in Michigan

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ers/623490001/
    A gun was pulled after two pairs of women fought over the last notebook on a shelf at the Novi Towne Center Walmart on Monday afternoon, according to local media report
    DETROIT — A gun was pulled after two pairs of women fought over the last notebook on a shelf at a Walmart in Michigan this week, according to police.

    Novi Police Detective Scott Baetens told the Detroit Free Press that police have reviewed video footage of the Monday incident recorded on a witness' cellphone and have submitted the case to the Oakland County Prosecutor's Office for review.

    The fight at the Novi Towne Center store involved two Farmington Hills residents, ages 46 and 32, and a mother and daughter from South Lyon, ages 51 and 20.

    WCRZ-FM reported that the two Farmington Hills women were shopping for school supplies when one of them reached for the last notebook on the shelf. Police told the Free Press that the 20-year-old also reached for it.

    More: How to cut down on homework drama with a distraction-free space

    More: The back-to-school list nobody ever tells you about

    The two women pulled the 20-year-old’s hair, and the woman's mother was pushed aside before pulling out a gun, according to Fox2Detroit.

    "She pulled out her firearm and tells them to stop attacking her daughter while pointing the gun at them,” Baetens was quoted as saying in a Fox2Detroit report.

    The mother has a valid concealed pistol license, and police are not releasing what kind of gun was in her possession, Baetens told the Free Press. He said the names of the individuals involved will not be released at this time.

    Baetens said he believes the South Lyon women purchased the notebook.
    Proof Armed citizens make a difference. http://forum.pafoa.org/showthread.php?t=316012

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Was this a justified use of a concealed carry gun?

    Nope. No reasonable fear of serious bodily injury or death, so no justification to pull the gun. What a stupid move.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Was this a justified use of a concealed carry gun?

    Quote Originally Posted by scruff View Post
    Nope. No reasonable fear of serious bodily injury or death, so no justification to pull the gun. What a stupid move.
    No reasonable fear? I would disagree since 2 women were in the middle of assualtibg her daughter and who knows how far they would take the beat down? Many time on this board there were articles posted of people dying from a fist fight.

    While I am not saying it's justified I can see how the mother might fear serious injury or worse.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Was this a justified use of a concealed carry gun?

    Bet she's a road rager too

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Was this a justified use of a concealed carry gun?

    Not as good video as the one posted above, but here's a news account of what happened.


  6. #6
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    Default Re: Was this a justified use of a concealed carry gun?

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeinPhilly View Post
    No reasonable fear? I would disagree since 2 women were in the middle of assualtibg her daughter and who knows how far they would take the beat down? Many time on this board there were articles posted of people dying from a fist fight.

    While I am not saying it's justified I can see how the mother might fear serious injury or worse.
    A little shoving over a notebook at Walmart was life-threatening? Would you want to try to sell that to a jury? I wouldn't.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Was this a justified use of a concealed carry gun?

    I'm not a lawyer....but from what I can tell from just that short video, I would say no not justified. Someone pulling someone's hair to me is not a lethal attack, and I'm not a believer in using a firearm as a "de-escalator", meaning if I'm drawing my firearm then the situation has already met the criteria to use it and it will not be drawn for anything less. She appears to be using it to to "hold them".

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Was this a justified use of a concealed carry gun?

    Holy crap, I assumed it was a computer, but it was only a paper notebook? Not that it makes a difference, but come on, people. I'm not going to wrestle someone for an item off the shelf, even if I got there first. It's a fucking notebook, not medicine for my dying kid. Find another one in Walmart. Walk next door to Office Depot or Dollar General. Don't debase yourself by wrestling assholes in a Walmart aisle. Seriously.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Was this a justified use of a concealed carry gun?

    Don't know what the mother/daughter may have done or said that led up to this, but assuming nothing more then reaching for the same notebook..........

    If her daughter was taking a beating or about to over a notebook I'm not going to judge the gun being pulled. What was she to do? Jump in? Wait for punches to be thrown?
    Ask politely if the two lunatics cat fighting over a notebook would please stop beating on her daughter? If she is permitted to defend her daughter life in Detroit I'm good with it.
    Two people that will shove someone aside and get into any kind of an altercation over a notebook could just as easily pull out a gun or a knife. It's Detroit after all. Not exactly a city known for low crime. Things can happen quick and escalate quick.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Was this a justified use of a concealed carry gun?

    It did stop the fight fast. It is possible she feared for her daughters life or well being. The daughter could thrown into a shelf losing all her teeth or thrown to the floor being knocked out. YouTube is full of videos where people get beat down bad. How much damage does a person have to receive before it is okay to pull a gun? As Mikeinphilly said, we've all read stories where getting hit the right way has caused serious harm or death. Part of the problem is a lot of us have different internal standards for what constitutes life threatening.

    But pulling a gun there could have gone bad fast in many ways and has to be a consideration. If one of the women had advanced on the person with the gun and she pulled the trigger it would be tough convincing a jury that a fight over a notebook is worth a persons life. You don't really know what's beyond the woman, miss and you might go through an aisle and hit an innocent bystander..... over a notebook.

    But then again, it's not about the notebook, it's about the reaction after the notebook incident and how much danger you and your daughter are really in.
    Proof Armed citizens make a difference. http://forum.pafoa.org/showthread.php?t=316012

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