African Dangerous Game and Big Rifles

[JenniferG]

I understand the need for thinning out a herd that is overpopulated, (i.e., it helps the species to survive and prosper). Or, donating harvested game to locals or charity for food. However, it's morally criminal to hunt big game such as an elephant, simply for sport.

Until one comes into your village and tramples your house and family.

H&H Royal Double in 470 Nitro express. Don't get trampled.

[pennlineman]

Oops! My bad.

No worries. It's just disturbing that people have to piss all over some ones thread over misguided moral objections in spite of the OP's request not to. Certainly a topic for another thread if they feel so strongly about it. The OP is obviously stoked about the opportunity of what many of us would consider a hunt of a life time. Two years out he's seeking advice and gathering information just as he should. African hunts are very heavily regulated in both the host country and the United States in regards to what you can bring back. The hunter, be it trophy or otherwise provides both a service and a great deal of income to the host nation. As you said below very little gets wasted in Africa, a little research would bear this out. But then again feelings not facts rule the day. That I will never adapt to.

Typically, they're one and the same. Large sources of free protein don't often go to waste in Africa.

[JAKIII]

Until one comes into your village and tramples your house and family.

Well, that's a rather silly post. Killing an animal for self defense of the tribe is 180 from a big game sport hunter with a small dick complex in search of a trophy for his wall.

[hog45]

Well, that's a rather silly post. Killing an animal for self defense of the tribe is 180 from a big game sport hunter with a small dick complex in search of a trophy for his wall.

Hahahahaha Yep, you got me pegged!

[pennlineman]

Hahahahaha Yep, you got me pegged!

Can't help but wonder how he gathered the data to come to his conclusion.

Never the less back on topic. If you ever find your way down towards Westmoreland county you're more than welcome to try out my rifles. You'll have some first hand knowledge to base your decision on. If I had the opportunity you have in front of you I'd be all over it.

[JAKIII]

Hahahahaha Yep, you got me pegged!

You're right... my comment was unfair. Not all big game trophy hunters have dicks.

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[cephas]

[SIZE=1]If after "Pennlineman's" recommendations, you're still not sure what caliber you need, there's a "five pack" for sale: :

Is it me or do some of those heavier offerings seem a tad light for their caliber?
A 7.5 lb 450 Nitro Express or a 7.25 375 would be memorable from the bench.
Scoping would add a bit.
In contrast I have a #1 375 H&H that I believe is over 9 lbs bare. From the bench with a past recoil pad I find it tolerable for a 5 shot group.
Found over the years the number of shots have been inversely proportional to my age. Have not shot it in awhile, should go see what I'm down to.

[Sandcut]

Well, that's a rather silly post. Killing an animal for self defense of the tribe is 180 from a big game sport hunter with a small dick complex in search of a trophy for his wall.

So, if I understand you correctly, all of the Maasai warriors who have killed lions (lions = big game) as a rite of manhood, using only spears, have all done so because of the small size of their wedding tackle, is that correct?

Your understanding of how modern hunting and conservation practices work in Africa are antiquated. As Pennlineman said above, hunting in Africa is highly regulated. Moreso than here in the states. You don't just go out and shoot any damn animal you please. As with animals like whitetail deer here in the states, there are requirements that are required to be met, both by the hunter and by the PH (professional hunter, aka, hunting guide). These have to do with the sex of the animal, the specific herd/pride/population, and age. Only specific animals can be taken, and those many times are mature animals that are beyond their reproductive prime and would soon be on the verge of loosing group status and, eventually, dying anyway. By selecting certain animals to be killed (not cropped, not harvested, killed) you ensure a healthy population, prevent possible mortality from hierarchy struggles, but more importantly, hunting provides value to the animals by the locals.

In an area without hunting, elephants destroy crops and property and have value only as bushmeat or as an ivory source. As with a farmer in a domestic market, the local African guy actually shooting the elephant for the meat/ivory hardly makes a dime. The real money comes with all the middle man markup up the supply chain. But, by regulating the process of hunting, an industry is created surrounding the hunt that requires a wide variety of support staff and secondary markets. And this brings money into the economy, thus, giving value to the animals far beyond bushmeat and ivory. This value encourages stewardship and conservation of the animals in a way that would never be possible under the old way of thinking by the locals. (Yeah, I know. Government regulations are always bad and can never result in a positive economic result. My understanding of economics is flawed.)

If you personally don't care to hunt, don't. I won't condemn you for doing so. You have your reasons. But don't be criticizing those that want to do so lawfully. They have their reasons as well. I personally would never shoot an elephant. As a hunter, I can understand the allure. I just wouldn't do it unless I really had to. But I also understand the role that Western conservation practices play in protecting African wildlife. If sacrificing a few animals annually prevents the wanton slaughter of ALL of the animals, I'm OK with that. And that includes charismatic megafauna such as elephants and whales in spite of the fact that we know them to be highly intelligent, social animals that possess self-awareness more than most people give them credit for.

Save the moral high horse, little dick comments for the Progressives. I'm sure that they could make the same argument about you and your affinity for firearms.

[pennlineman]

Is it me or do some of those heavier offerings seem a tad light for their caliber?
A 7.5 lb 450 Nitro Express or a 7.25 375 would be memorable from the bench.
Scoping would add a bit.
In contrast I have a #1 375 H&H that I believe is over 9 lbs bare. From the bench with a past recoil pad I find it tolerable for a 5 shot group.
Found over the years the number of shots have been inversely proportional to my age. Have not shot it in awhile, should go see what I'm down to.

All the research I did when buying my rifles indicated a total weight of 10 pounds including scope, sling etc would be about right. My 375 was a around 7.5 pounds when I bought it and it was a beast to shoot. I added some weight to the stock now it's a pleasure to shoot. My 458's were in the proper weight range and are actually fun off hand. Learning to shoot from shooting sticks is a must for this type of hunting.

[JAKIII]

I understand the need for thinning out a herd that is overpopulated, (i.e., it helps the species to survive and prosper). Or, donating harvested game to locals or charity for food. However, it's morally criminal to hunt big game such as an elephant, simply for sport.

I personally would never shoot an elephant. As a hunter, I can understand the allure. I just wouldn't do it unless I really had to. But I also understand the role that Western conservation practices play in protecting African wildlife. If sacrificing a few animals annually prevents the wanton slaughter of ALL of the animals, I'm OK with that. And that includes charismatic megafauna such as elephants and whales in spite of the fact that we know them to be highly intelligent, social animals that possess self-awareness more than most people give them credit for.

Totally agree, as reflected in my prior post. However, anyone who shoots an elephant simply for the "allure" or desire for a wall trophy is morally reprehensible.