I am not rushing to buy a semi for hunting.

[Yellowfin]

It's funny how people associate semis with ar15s and the 223 round. There are so many other calibers than just 223 for that pattern rifle.

If they knew enough to know that, they wouldn't be objecting to hunting with them in the first place. The root of Fuddism is willful ignorance, perhaps the stupidest of all human thought patterns.

[Badger Tuff]

It's funny how people associate semis with ar15s and the 223 round. There are so many other calibers than just 223 for that pattern rifle.

You are right sir! and what I'm was saying is don't under estimate the 223 for deer or black bear with the right bullet of course. Me personally I would have an AR 10 in 308 or 6.5 Creedmoor if hunting is allowed with a semi in PA.

[4thdimension]

I could see using a Garand or M14. My only issue with them is that they are heavy.

[Yellowfin]

You are right sir! and what I'm was saying is don't under estimate the 223 for deer or black bear with the right bullet of course. Me personally I would have an AR 10 in 308 or 6.5 Creedmoor if hunting is allowed with a semi in PA.

Go ahead and grab one now while prices are low and options are numerous, so you can get it the way you want it. It takes a while to get used to AR10's --not bad, but way different feel and ammo selection a bit more complex.

[Badger Tuff]

Go ahead and grab one now while prices are low and options are numerous, so you can get it the way you want it. It takes a while to get used to AR10's --not bad, but way different feel and ammo selection a bit more complex.

Yeah, I have been looking at Rock River Arms and Windham AR 10's.

[Gyoas759]

You are right sir! and what I'm was saying is don't under estimate the 223 for deer or black bear with the right bullet of course. Me personally I would have an AR 10 in 308 or 6.5 Creedmoor if hunting is allowed with a semi in PA.

The fact that you would even consider a 223 for bear confirms everything I said.

Of course there are going to be plenty of guys packing more punch than the 223 in their ARs. But I've already had more than a couple conversations with guys wanting to hunt with ARs, when I ask caliber, they say 223. When I ask about effective killing range I get blank stares or weak/uneducated excuses. My concerns are far from unfounded.

That Virginia law sounds very wise.

Sure. If everyone hunting with the 223 limited their shots to 100 yards or less or hunted with a more powerful round, you would not hear a peep from me. All would be well. Lots of folks know the good about the 223. it's light, it's inexpensive, its extremely accurate, but theres also a hubris about it. It's light. It's weak. If you hit a deer in the shoulder beyond 100 yards or a bear even inside 100 yards you've likely maimed and not killed. A flat shooting bullet of 55, 65 or 70 grains just doesn't have that power. Not opinion, physics.

So again, I am not against using the 223 for deer. it has its place, but worry about the proper understanding of the round to transfer the application of a range gun that is accurate at long ranges to a deer gun (effective only at close range and being choosy about your shots)

[sinkrun]

Could just switch to a air gun for deer,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSE1zySpGuo

[Mitch10mm]

You really think a lot of hunters are going to use AR15s for deer?
Or do you think a lot of AR15 owners want to try and kill something so they'll get a hunting license and tromp into the woods and unload on the first whitetail they see?

There are a lot of semi auto rifles out there for the hunter. Most hunters I know will choose wisely. I'll stick to my model 94 and shots under 100 yds

[dkf]

I'm going to use an AR15 for deer. Got a .458socom a couple years ago 1) Because I wanted one 2) Because it was talked about that PA was considering stepping into the 20th century and allowing semis for hunting. Its a 45-70 in an AR15 basically. I have said it before but I say it again there must be at least 50 cartridges by now the AR15 is chambered in, thus the only option is not .223/5.56. FYI the .223/5.56 is rather powerful compared to some of the other cartridges that are LEGAL to hunt big game with in PA. For big game a .223 is not even close to my first choice but it isn't useless either. You should see what many people hunt in Alaska with .223s, hint animals a hell of a lot bigger than 5 PA deer put together. Worrying about nothing.

[Badger Tuff]

The fact that you would even consider a 223 for bear confirms everything I said.

Of course there are going to be plenty of guys packing more punch than the 223 in their ARs. But I've already had more than a couple conversations with guys wanting to hunt with ARs, when I ask caliber, they say 223. When I ask about effective killing range I get blank stares or weak/uneducated excuses. My concerns are far from unfounded.

That Virginia law sounds very wise.

Sure. If everyone hunting with the 223 limited their shots to 100 yards or less or hunted with a more powerful round, you would not hear a peep from me. All would be well. Lots of folks know the good about the 223. it's light, it's inexpensive, its extremely accurate, but theres also a hubris about it. It's light. It's weak. If you hit a deer in the shoulder beyond 100 yards or a bear even inside 100 yards you've likely maimed and not killed. A flat shooting bullet of 55, 65 or 70 grains just doesn't have that power. Not opinion, physics.

So again, I am not against using the 223 for deer. it has its place, but worry about the proper understanding of the round to transfer the application of a range gun that is accurate at long ranges to a deer gun (effective only at close range and being choosy about your shots)

Yep, you can confirm all you want, but the fact is you really don't know or haven't seen first hand what an AR 15 5.56 round can do or you would have a different opinion. Like I said before don't under estimate that 223 round. Also if it wasn't effective do you really think our military and many other military around the world would continue to use it?