Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
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    ..............., Pennsylvania
    (Chester County)
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    Default Re: Definition of "Concealed CaRRY"

    Here's some additional fodder for divining the definition of "concealed" that I posted in 2014:

    Quote Originally Posted by tl_3237 View Post
    I'm unaware of any statutory or case law that provides a clear definition in Pa. FWIW when a court seeks a definition that is not provided by state or case laws they can, and do, reach out to statutes in other states to formulate definitions for use in the case at hand.

    From the actual, active statute contained in the North Dakota Century Code 62.1-04-01.:

    Definition of concealed.
    A firearm or dangerous weapon is concealed if it is carried in such a manner as to not be
    discernible by the ordinary observation of a passerby.
    There is no requirement that there be
    absolute invisibility of the firearm or dangerous weapon, merely that it not be ordinarily
    discernible. A firearm or dangerous weapon is considered concealed if it is not secured, and is
    worn under clothing or carried in a bundle that is held or carried by the individual, or transported
    in a vehicle under the individual's control or direction and available to the individual, including
    beneath the seat or in a glove compartment. A firearm or dangerous weapon is not considered
    concealed if it is:
    1. Carried in a belt holster which is wholly or substantially visible or carried in a case
    designed for carrying a firearm or dangerous weapon and which is wholly or
    substantially visible;
    2. Locked in a closed trunk or luggage compartment of a motor vehicle;
    3. Carried in the field while lawfully engaged in hunting, trapping, or target shooting,
    whether visible or not; or
    4. Carried by any person permitted by law to possess a handgun unloaded and in a
    secure wrapper from the place of purchase to that person's home or place of business,
    or to a place of repair, or back from those locations.
    5. A bow and arrow, an unloaded rifle or shotgun, or an unloaded weapon that will expel,
    or is readily capable of expelling, a projectile by the action of a spring, compressed air,
    or compressed gas including any such weapon commonly referred to as a BB gun, air
    rifle, or CO2 gun, while carried in a motor vehicle.
    From Black's Law Dictionary (4th Edition):
    CONCEAL. To hide; secrete; withhold from the
    knowledge of others; to withdraw from observation;
    to withhold from utterance or declaration;
    to cover or keep from sight. Hopper v. Hopkins,
    162 Md. 448, 160 A. 166, 167.
    The synonyms of conceal are "to hide; disguise, dissemble;
    secrete." To hide is generic; "conceal" is simply
    not to make known what we wish to secrete; disguise or
    dissemble is to conceal by assuming some false appearance;
    to secrete is to hide in some place of secrecy. A man may
    conceal facts, disguise his sentiments, dissemble his feelings,
    or secrete stolen goods. Darneal v. State, 14 Oki.Cr.
    540, 174 P. 290, 292, 1 A.L.R. 638.
    The word "conceal," according to the best lexicographers,
    signifies to withhold or keep secret mental facts from
    another's knowledge, as well as to hide or secrete physical
    objects from sight or observation. Gerry v. Dunham, 57
    Me. 339.
    Last edited by tl_3237; July 18th, 2017 at 10:33 AM.
    IANAL

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Upper Darby, Pennsylvania
    (Delaware County)
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    51
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    Default Re: Definition of "Concealed CaRRY"

    Quote Originally Posted by Parrisk View Post
    Please correct if I am, my understanding of Open Carry is while on foot and the entire handgun, including the retention (holster), is in plain view.. other than that it is considered concealed, or not in plain sight.
    ie.. OWB holster and while moving you shirt becomes untucked and covered the grips.. concealed, no longer in plain sight
    If the popo can see it as worn (I am not discussing wind-blown shirts, etc.) it is not concealed.

    I carry my gov't 1911 in a hand made (my hands, thankyouverymuch) crossbreed clone IWB between 3:00 and 3:30. Even with it set deep enough to juuuuust allow my middle finger between the frontstrap and my belt, there is as much gun visible as not.

    I can tell you 100% that SEPTA police consider what I do open carry: http://forum.pafoa.org/showthread.php?t=216917

    My 2
    YMMV
    etc...

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Brookville, Pennsylvania
    (Jefferson County)
    Age
    45
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    Default Re: Definition of "Concealed CaRRY"

    Take special note, a person has been convicted in PA of carrying concealed even when he was carrying openly because he purposely and intentionally turned his body away, thus obstructing view of the handgun. That case focused on the intent to hide the firearm.
    RIP: SFN, 1861, twoeggsup, Lambo, jamesjo, JayBell, 32 Magnum, Pro2A, mrwildroot, dregan, Frenchy, Fragger.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
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    n/a, Florida
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    Default Re: Definition of "Concealed CaRRY"

    Coming from PA and living in FL it is not as free here in FL. Every time open carry comes up you should see the newspapers. People are frantic. LEO agencies tell what horror will come from it. They portray it as the wild west. Yet most states have open carry. It is so stupid.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Pittston, Pennsylvania
    (Luzerne County)
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    Default Re: Definition of "Concealed CaRRY"

    Quote Originally Posted by LTCcarrier View Post
    Coming from PA and living in FL it is not as free here in FL. Every time open carry comes up you should see the newspapers. People are frantic. LEO agencies tell what horror will come from it. They portray it as the wild west. Yet most states have open carry. It is so stupid.
    It has been known for a long time that Pa was an open carry state. But rarely did you see someone open carry. The a few years ago a group of people began to bring back the practice. You would hear cries of "think of the children" or from gun owners " your gonna ruin it for the rest of us" Yes there were people stopped and yes there were stories in the paper.

    The point is it is either legal or not.
    Don't be an ass.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Patterson Twp, Pennsylvania
    (Beaver County)
    Posts
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    Cool Re: Definition of "Concealed CaRRY"

    Quote Originally Posted by normanvin View Post
    It has been known for a long time that Pa was an open carry state. But rarely did you see someone open carry. The a few years ago a group of showoffs began to bring back the practice. You would hear cries of "think of the children" or from gun owners " your gonna ruin it for the rest of us" Yes there were people stopped and yes there were stories in the paper.

    The point is it is either legal or not.
    FIFY.
    Go sell crazy some where else, we're all stocked up here.


    Political power grows from the muzzle of a gun.

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Pittston, Pennsylvania
    (Luzerne County)
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    Default Re: Definition of "Concealed CaRRY"

    Quote Originally Posted by pacodelahoya View Post
    FIFY.
    Or people not afraid to stand up for themselves


    Sixty
    Don't be an ass.

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