CLAIM: Open carry not permitted if possessing LTCF

[RockIsland]

You mean the Israeli 9mm ammo with hard primers that requires an open bolt gun to reliably function?

Because that's a thing....

This is too, but no hard primers. I still have a few boxes but it's not very good for most midsized and compact pistols.

[RayDiffraction]

This bit of bad info has been promulgated by people who ought to know better, like certain DA's and sheriffs, and the entire Philly PD....

BINGO!!! You called it.

I spoke with the store owner today, and he said that he had questioned this particular claim in the past. Since he had heard conflicting statements, he checked with a couple LEO friends and and eventually more than one person in the local DA's office. I asked, "Were these people from back east--you know, the Philly area?" Indeed they were. He's familiar with PAFOA and I directed him to this discussion. He thanked me and told me he's definitely going to have another talk with his current lawyers--who aren't from Philly!

[longcall911]

The Original Post states something that I think we all missed. "...struck up a conversation with the owner who is a certified USCCA instructor."

He's a certified USCCA instructor and he does not know the law? I'm somewhat forgiving of a gun shop owner in that I wouldn't want to see him lose his business over one mistake. But, a gun shop owner who is also a certified USCCA instructor giving out grossly inaccurate information is IMHO, unforgivable.

If you are that gun shop owner and you are reading this thread, know that you either need to learn the law or shut your mouth.

[Justin///M]

The Original Post states something that I think we all missed. "...struck up a conversation with the owner who is a certified USCCA instructor."

He's a certified USCCA instructor and he does not know the law? I'm somewhat forgiving of a gun shop owner in that I wouldn't want to see him lose his business over one mistake. But, a gun shop owner who is also a certified USCCA instructor giving out grossly inaccurate information is IMHO, unforgivable.

If you are that gun shop owner and you are reading this thread, know that you either need to learn the law or shut your mouth.

Nope, we didn't all miss it.

Standard gun shop drivel. It never ceases to amaze me how uninformed gun shop owners and salesman are. Even "certified instructors". It kind of cheapens the "certification" for me when they don't even know the laws about which they speak.

I agree with you.

[streaker69]

The Original Post states something that I think we all missed. "...struck up a conversation with the owner who is a certified USCCA instructor."

He's a certified USCCA instructor and he does not know the law? I'm somewhat forgiving of a gun shop owner in that I wouldn't want to see him lose his business over one mistake. But, a gun shop owner who is also a certified USCCA instructor giving out grossly inaccurate information is IMHO, unforgivable.

If you are that gun shop owner and you are reading this thread, know that you either need to learn the law or shut your mouth.

He's a USCCA instructor, not a USLTCF instructor.

[RayDiffraction]

The store owner now has the correct information.

Apparently there are others who may still need to learn this aspect of open carry/LTCF (and especially in the Philly area?). I'm assuming that many PA gun owners have never heard this erroneous claim (I never had). It might be the case that there still remains a minority of gun owners who've had it told to or trained into them. Heck, you may know a someone who learned it, but you never talked about it because it's so absurd (it was to me). For those here who train or speak to gun groups, maybe dispelling this myth should be added to the lesson/curriculum if it's not already there. In addition, it can be brought up in casual conversation with fellow shooters at gun clubs and other meeting places. It has the added bonus of being even more outrageous your regular BS.

[GunLawyer001]

The store owner now has the correct information.

Apparently there are others who may still need to learn this aspect of open carry/LTCF (and especially in the Philly area?). I'm assuming that many PA gun owners have never heard this erroneous claim (I never had). It might be the case that there still remains a minority of gun owners who've had it told to or trained into them. Heck, you may know a someone who learned it, but you never talked about it because it's so absurd (it was to me). For those here who train or speak to gun groups, maybe dispelling this myth should be added to the lesson/curriculum if it's not already there. In addition, it can be brought up in casual conversation with fellow shooters at gun clubs and other meeting places. It has the added bonus of being even more outrageous your regular BS.

Whenever I teach a class, I always emphasize that questions are welcome, partly because it breaks up the monotony of my own voice, but more importantly because it allows people to clarify issues like this, which contradict other things that they've heard.

[donotknowme]

Whenever I teach a class, I always emphasize that questions are welcome, partly because it breaks up the monotony of my own voice, but more importantly because it allows people to clarify issues like this, which contradict other things that they've heard.

When is your next class?

[GunLawyer001]

When is your next class?

Nothing is currently scheduled, although I'm doing some CLE's for lawyers, which are really too pricey for most folks. I'll post something when I set up a regular firearms workshop.

[Sandcut]

The Original Post states something that I think we all missed. "...struck up a conversation with the owner who is a certified USCCA instructor."

He's a certified USCCA instructor and he does not know the law? I'm somewhat forgiving of a gun shop owner in that I wouldn't want to see him lose his business over one mistake. But, a gun shop owner who is also a certified USCCA instructor giving out grossly inaccurate information is IMHO, unforgivable.

If you are that gun shop owner and you are reading this thread, know that you either need to learn the law or shut your mouth.

Not necessarily. As Streaker pointed out, they guy is USCCA certified not USLTCF or PALTCF certified as an instructor. In looking at the information provided with the USCCA instructor package, NOWHERE in the description of their 235 slide, 8 lesson Powerpoint program is state carry laws even mentioned.

Concealed Carry & Home Defense Fundamentals Presentation Package
The Concealed Carry & Home Defense Fundamentals Presentation Package includes a 235-slide, 8-lesson PowerPoint Presentation including 14 professional quality classroom videos that enhance the subject being discussed.

Classroom Videos Included:
Explaining the “Reasonable Person Test”
Clearing Semi-Automatics
The Slap, Rack and Roll Drill
Clearing Three Types of Semi-Automatic Failures
The Isosceles Stance
The Weaver Stance
Why Not to Give Your Side of the Story
The Miranda Warning and Search & Seizure Laws
Stopping Severe Bleeding
The Miranda Warning and Search and Seizure
Drawing from the Holster
The FBI Flashlight Hold
The Harries Flashlight Hold
The Surefire Flashlight Hold

Just as with teaching at a high school level, being certified to teach the subject does not necessarily means that you're qualified to teach to teach the subject. The shop owner may be teaching the USCCA curriculum flawlessly. It may just be that the curriculum isn't the greatest.