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  1. #1
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    Thumbs down Philando Castile verdict not a good omen for concealed carriers

    I'm sure everyone knows the verdict by now:
    http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/16/us/phi...sts/index.html

    “I am so disappointed in the state of Minnesota,” Castile’s mother, Valerie Castile, said at a news conference shortly after the verdict was read in court about 2:45 p.m. “My son loved this state. He had one tattoo on his body and it was of the Twin Cities — the state of Minnesota with TC on it. My son loved this city and this city killed my son. And the murderer gets away.”


    http://www.startribune.com/fifth-day-of-jury-deliberations-underway-in-yanez-trial/428862473/#1


    • Out of all the cases that Black Lives Matter has gotten mad over, this and one other one (a social worker lying on the ground with his hands up and he gets sprayed while his hands are clearly up and he's obeying orders) are the only ones that actually draw my sympathy.
    • Castile did not draw a weapon.
    • Multiple tactical expert witnesses testified P/O Yanez was not situationally aware.
    • P/O Yanez was yelling "f---!" multiple times then he started sobbing after he executed Castile.
    • Castile's concealed carry permit was valid and active, meaning he had no criminal record.
    • P/O Yanez misidentified him as a suspect he was looking for on another job, but failed to determine his actual identity. He learned he got it wrong when his wallet was inspected.
    • Some of the shots Yanez sprayed into the car went into the center console, nearly striking the girlfriend, and another one came close to hitting the child in the carseat in the back.


    And since the incident, his employers have issued a presser saying that no matter what the local FOP says, he's never going to be getting a paycheck from the township where he was working.


    If a concealed carry permit holder is following all the rules, obeying all the laws, and following all the orders LEOs are barking at you; your chances of being snuffed out are still not 0. If there's any more P/O Yanez's out there waiting to repeat a f**k up like this and murder innocent civilians then perhaps it's time to start amending state criminal and civil statutes.


    Politically, law enforcement unions have jumped political parties because they lost support with Democrats to the point that the national party feels safe in attacking them. With cases like this one, that loss of support is bound to spread further into the general population.
    SAR-semi automatic rifle. FAR-the Type II stuff you'll never be able to afford.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Philando Castile verdict not a good omen for concealed carriers

    I thought it was a clearly bad shoot. I was surprised at the verdict.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Philando Castile verdict not a good omen for concealed carriers

    Quote Originally Posted by Remington788 View Post
    I was surprised at the verdict.
    Not me. I see a lot of these types of shootings and verdicts
    in the future.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Philando Castile verdict not a good omen for concealed carriers

    Interesting that the police department has fired him....so,couldn't he sue them since has been found not guilty?
    "The time for empty talk is over....now is the hour of action" DJT

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Philando Castile verdict not a good omen for concealed carriers

    Quote Originally Posted by ArcticSplash View Post
    I'm sure everyone knows the verdict by now:
    http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/16/us/phi...sts/index.html



    http://www.startribune.com/fifth-day-of-jury-deliberations-underway-in-yanez-trial/428862473/#1


    • Out of all the cases that Black Lives Matter has gotten mad over, this and one other one (a social worker lying on the ground with his hands up and he gets sprayed while his hands are clearly up and he's obeying orders) are the only ones that actually draw my sympathy.
    • Castile did not draw a weapon.
    • Multiple tactical expert witnesses testified P/O Yanez was not situationally aware.
    • P/O Yanez was yelling "f---!" multiple times then he started sobbing after he executed Castile.
    • Castile's concealed carry permit was valid and active, meaning he had no criminal record.
    • P/O Yanez misidentified him as a suspect he was looking for on another job, but failed to determine his actual identity. He learned he got it wrong when his wallet was inspected.
    • Some of the shots Yanez sprayed into the car went into the center console, nearly striking the girlfriend, and another one came close to hitting the child in the carseat in the back.


    And since the incident, his employers have issued a presser saying that no matter what the local FOP says, he's never going to be getting a paycheck from the township where he was working.


    If a concealed carry permit holder is following all the rules, obeying all the laws, and following all the orders LEOs are barking at you; your chances of being snuffed out are still not 0. If there's any more P/O Yanez's out there waiting to repeat a f**k up like this and murder innocent civilians then perhaps it's time to start amending state criminal and civil statutes.


    Politically, law enforcement unions have jumped political parties because they lost support with Democrats to the point that the national party feels safe in attacking them. With cases like this one, that loss of support is bound to spread further into the general population.
    I don't think that the facts are that certain or clear. The jury seems to have agreed that the cop didn't just pull a gun and kill the guy without cause.

    The rules on the use of deadly force are pretty harsh, and the penalties are severe. Responsible gun ownership requires a lot of self-control. Castile appears to have been a driver who ignored most of the traffic laws, based on how often he was pulled over for not having a muffler on his car, or for driving on a suspended license, or for dozens of other violations. The media tell different stories about just how often he was pulled over, but it looks to be between 31 and 52 times over his last 13 years or so. He was charged with 86 violations, convicted of about half of them. To me, that doesn't scream "careful guy who follows the rules". If he had allowed one of his inspection stickers to expire, that would be different, but 25 summary convictions starts to show a scofflaw pattern.

    Does that mean he should have been shot? Nope. That's not even close to my point. My point is closer to "why you shouldn't try to steal electrical wire from the power substation." There are some dumb things that are not even close to be worthy of the death penalty, that can still get you killed. Being oblivious is one of those.

    It means that he wasn't the typical concealed weapon carrier, the kind who hangs out on PAFOA and delves into the rules and how they apply in different situations, the kind who carries little summaries of the statutes, the kind who knows at least some of the Constitution.

    It means that he was willing to break rules that he found inconvenient. It means that his girlfriend's story shouldn't necessarily be believed, particularly given that she live-streamed her boyfriend dying, video which is absolutely without value in determining what caused the shooting before the video started.

    One lesson here might be that you don't want to tell a cop that you have a gun just before you suddenly reach into your pocket for your wallet. If you believe that all cops (including Hispanic officers like Yanez) are racists who want to kill all brown folks, then treat them like you'd treat a junkyard dog. Move slowly, don't do things they probably won't like. If you believe that cops are trying to do their job as best they know how, the same advice works.

    I can't claim to know all the facts here, because the public propaganda outweighs the truth by a factor of 1,000 to 1. But the jury heard both sides make their best case that the cop committed a crime or that he didn't, they saw all of the admissible evidence without the media filter, and the jury acquitted him.
    Attorney Phil Kline, AKA gunlawyer001@gmail.com
    Thanks to all who attended my Firearms Law Workshops this year!

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Philando Castile verdict not a good omen for concealed carriers

    Quote Originally Posted by Krichardson View Post
    Interesting that the police department has fired him....so,couldn't he sue them since has been found not guilty?
    Departments are allowed to fire cops even if they have not committed criminal homicide. I think that's a good thing.
    Attorney Phil Kline, AKA gunlawyer001@gmail.com
    Thanks to all who attended my Firearms Law Workshops this year!

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Philando Castile verdict not a good omen for concealed carriers

    Quote Originally Posted by Krichardson View Post
    Interesting that the police department has fired him....so,couldn't he sue them since has been found not guilty?
    A lot of FOP contracts (Philly is one such place) give leverage to the union to get the officer on the payroll after he's been exonerated.

    A number of bad apples escaped prosecution and head straight for arbitration to get their back pay restored. Then after they collect the loot they may then quit and go find work elsewhere. This happens in Philly fairly regularly.
    SAR-semi automatic rifle. FAR-the Type II stuff you'll never be able to afford.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Philando Castile verdict not a good omen for concealed carriers

    Quote Originally Posted by GunLawyer001 View Post
    Departments are allowed to fire cops even if they have not committed criminal homicide. I think that's a good thing.
    It depends on what the arbitration contract has in it. In Philly if your piss tests hot you're out the door. If you're accused of rape several times but the witnesses flake out or you're acquitted you're fine.
    SAR-semi automatic rifle. FAR-the Type II stuff you'll never be able to afford.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Philando Castile verdict not a good omen for concealed carriers

    One has to assume DWB has at least something to do with the scenario as is not the case for the majority of CCW on Poofa. In any case, I applaud the jury for making a tough call. The optics from afar did not look good for the cop. At least it didn't end in a hung jury or nullification because the two blacks who served were earnest and sought justice as opposed to what these protesters are apparently calling for which is an ethnically pure jury of peers which would (presumably) ignore the facts and the law because it means social justice and sticking it to the man.
    "Everyone is entitled to my opinion."

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Philando Castile verdict not a good omen for concealed carriers

    Double post. Already on The Lounge.

    Anyone else monitoring the castle case

    Started by Muscle Master, June 1st, 2017 09:45 AM

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