Philando Castile verdict not a good omen for concealed carriers

[GunLawyer001]

This cop was a fucking coward. There should be an obligation to see an actual threat, not I thought he was going to do something. He had his gun drawn on the guy, how was he going to get shot? The guy would have to draw his gun and awkwardly turn it and point it at the cop before the cop could get shot. All the cop had to do was squeeze the trigger. He should be in jail. If you think this cop did a good job, you are a fucking idiot.

You seem to know what you're talking about, or at least you seem sure of yourself, so I have to ask, how many gunfights have you survived so far?

Me, I've engaged in none, so I'm going to give the participants some slack.

It was just a few weeks ago that a pair of bounty hunters went after a bail jumper, and they were both armed and he was armed, so clearly, he wasn't going to be able to hurt them without getting shot himself. Which is exactly what happened. All three of them died from gun shot wounds. Perhaps not the outcome you'd predict or desire, unless you hate bounty hunters with the same passion some have for hating cops.

[GunLawyer001]

Better just shoot everyone that reaches into or even towards their pocket then just to make sure. Sure hes just getting his drivers license but there could be a WMD or an RPG in there. Of course this kind of force can only be justifiably used by trained professionals. Gee what could go wrong.

If someone breaks into my home, and I get the jump on him, and am holding him at gunpoint, and he persists in trying to pull some object from his backpack despite my screaming at him to just fucking NOT MOVE DAMMIT......I'm going to stop him. I'm going to consider his willingness to defy me and risk being shot to be a red flag that he expects to end my participation in the exercise rather suddenly.

I've told women for a long time, that if they're getting into their car in an isolated parking lot at 10 PM, and the only other person around is a shifty-looking guy who walks toward them in a determined manner, while asking some bullshit question like "do you have a match", that the woman should consider drawing a firearm and holding it visible but safe, while instructing the guy to "back away, I feel unsafe". If he persists in approaching, what he's telling you is that he's willing to risk death to achieve his goal, and that the goal requires him to be within grabbing distance of you.

Any woman who shot a man under those circumstances, if proven, would have my sympathy and understanding. Because the facts in that case aren't limited to "some guy was walking in a public parking lot, where he had every right to be, and she shot him without even seeing a weapon." No, the facts would include "he was willing to risk being shot to get what he wanted, which appeared to be her body or her life."

Life has a few inherent rules, and among those rules is that (a) you should try not to be in a situation where you have to obey arbitrary authority, and (b) if you fail at (a), then submit to that authority until you don't have to anymore. Philando appears to have had authority issues, and they got him killed.

[dkf]

If someone breaks into my home, and I get the jump on him, and am holding him at gunpoint, and he persists in trying to pull some object from his backpack despite my screaming at him to just fucking NOT MOVE DAMMIT......I'm going to stop him. I'm going to consider his willingness to defy me and risk being shot to be a red flag that he expects to end my participation in the exercise rather suddenly.

I've told women for a long time, that if they're getting into their car in an isolated parking lot at 10 PM, and the only other person around is a shifty-looking guy who walks toward them in a determined manner, while asking some bullshit question like "do you have a match", that the woman should consider drawing a firearm and holding it visible but safe, while instructing the guy to "back away, I feel unsafe". If he persists in approaching, what he's telling you is that he's willing to risk death to achieve his goal, and that the goal requires him to be within grabbing distance of you.

Any woman who shot a man under those circumstances, if proven, would have my sympathy and understanding. Because the facts in that case aren't limited to "some guy was walking in a public parking lot, where he had every right to be, and she shot him without even seeing a weapon." No, the facts would include "he was willing to risk being shot to get what he wanted, which appeared to be her body or her life."

Life has a few inherent rules, and among those rules is that (a) you should try not to be in a situation where you have to obey arbitrary authority, and (b) if you fail at (a), then submit to that authority until you don't have to anymore. Philando appears to have had authority issues, and they got him killed.

That is nice and all but that is not scenario that was being discussed and referred to here.

[Marcus99]

Better just shoot everyone that reaches into or even towards their pocket then just to make sure. Sure hes just getting his drivers license but there could be a WMD or an RPG in there. Of course this kind of force can only be justifiably used by trained professionals. Gee what could go wrong.

If they've announced that they're armed and have been ordered repeatedly not to reach into their pocket then yeah many would shoot.

[Justin2012]

Everyone on here can argue about this until they're blue in the face. The bottom line is if Philando would have stopped reaching in his pocket after hearing the officer REPEAT MULTIPLE TIME'S "Dont pull it out," then he'd be alive today. As much as I like this site, I despise all of the twisted and unrealistic logic from some of these members. Personally, if I'm ever pulled over; I'm going to LISTEN AND COMPLY WITH EVERY SINGLE COMMAND FROM THE OFFICER. I'll argue any disputes I have in the court of law. With that being said, I do truly feel bad for Philando and his family; this is a tragedy.

[Yoder]

You seem to know what you're talking about, or at least you seem sure of yourself, so I have to ask, how many gunfights have you survived so far?

Me, I've engaged in none, so I'm going to give the participants some slack.

It was just a few weeks ago that a pair of bounty hunters went after a bail jumper, and they were both armed and he was armed, so clearly, he wasn't going to be able to hurt them without getting shot himself. Which is exactly what happened. All three of them died from gun shot wounds. Perhaps not the outcome you'd predict or desire, unless you hate bounty hunters with the same passion some have for hating cops.

The word participants would mean that the two of them were involved in a gunfight. I seen a calm man with his wife and baby in the car calmly explain he had a gun. And he was murdered by a cop. Maybe he was trying to expose the gun to show the officer or just get his license. He got screamed at and repeatedly shot without ever even seeing a gun. This video made me so angry. It was such gross incompetence. This guy was one of us. I truly believe if he was white he wouldn't have been shot. If this incident doesn't highlight the piss poor training police are getting I don't know what would.

I've never been in a gunfight. This was not a gunfight it was an accidental execution. I do know if I had my gun drawn on a man facing forward in a car I would be confident I could shoot him before he got his gun out. Another thing to consider was the victims wife. Do you think the cop gave a thought to her safety? He could have easily killed her too. This was an innocent man shot by a scared cop. If the idea of a man with a gun gives you this much terror, maybe you should do mall security.

[Yoder]

Everyone on here can argue about this until they're blue in the face. The bottom line is if Philando would have stopped reaching in his pocket after hearing the officer REPEAT MULTIPLE TIME'S "Dont pull it out," then he'd be alive today. As much as I like this site, I despise all of the twisted and unrealistic logic from some of these members. Personally, if I'm ever pulled over; I'm going to LISTEN AND COMPLY WITH EVERY SINGLE COMMAND FROM THE OFFICER. I'll argue any disputes I have in the court of law. With that being said, I do truly feel bad for Philando and his family; this is a tragedy.

I expect a cop to be rational if I tell them I'm carrying a gun. Not start shrieking like a banshee and dumping a mag in my chest. That's not twisted logic. This cop is nuts. HE MURDERED AN INNOCENT MAN for what? Being nervous. I'm sure the guy in the car was scared. I think you have an obligation to the people you protect to make damn sure they are a threat. All this guy had to do was take a couple steps back and it would have given him time to react properly. How can any of you justify taking a man's life because you thought he might have a gun. Not good enough.

[dkf]

Everyone on here can argue about this until they're blue in the face. The bottom line is if Philando would have stopped reaching in his pocket after hearing the officer REPEAT MULTIPLE TIME'S "Dont pull it out," then he'd be alive today. As much as I like this site, I despise all of the twisted and unrealistic logic from some of these members. Personally, if I'm ever pulled over; I'm going to LISTEN AND COMPLY WITH EVERY SINGLE COMMAND FROM THE OFFICER. I'll argue any disputes I have in the court of law. With that being said, I do truly feel bad for Philando and his family; this is a tragedy.

I must have missed the part of the video that proved Castille went for his pocket then? Or are we just supposed to go by the officer's (Yanez) account and call it good? If I had a dollar for every video that proved a cop was yelling "stop resisting, stop resisting" or "put you hands behind your back, put your hands behind your back" (among other things) under false pretenses I could retire. Let alone the cases of perjury on behalf of LE. Just because I am not naive nor ignorant doesn't mean I am trying to twist anything.

[donotknowme]

The officer shouldn't have given conflicting demands.

[GunLawyer001]

That is nice and all but that is not scenario that was being discussed and referred to here.

It was an analogy. Most of us are not cops, but most of us live indoors.