Philando Castile verdict not a good omen for concealed carriers

[Marcus99]

My take is that the situation has thus far been resolved appropriately. I don't feel that the cop committed a criminal act and he was not found guilty. However I agree that it is probably best that he lose his employment and face whatever civil judgement he may face. While the commands and verbiage could be debated, in my eyes this man is dead because he did not obey the commands. Regardless of whether I'm carrying a weapon or not if I get pulled over my hands are placed clearly on the steering wheel (with the dome light on if it's dark). Anytime that I have been pulled over I have always retrieved my license, insurance card, registration and had them in hand well before the officer walked up to my window. No need to be reaching for anything! Granted I guess some cop could say that he saw you reaching around and accuse you of hiding something, but that has not been my experience.

[donotknowme]

So he should have just "kept the faith"?
"Don't reach for it" and he ignores the command. Too bad. I tend to obey officers. I'll voice my displeasure but will not be seen as a threat. Puff my chest and get shot? Nah.

But he didn't ignore the command. There were two commands one was to get his license (said prior to informing the officer of the gun) the other was to 'not pull it (the gun) out'. He didn't pull his gun out.

[Walleye Hunter]

Here is an instructional video that should be mandatory in all schools.

[Aggies Coach]

The OJ jury said he was Not Guilty in his first trial, sooo........

[GunLawyer001]

Can you please give one example where the person being pulled over has ever voluntarily notified the officer about having a gun before attempting to outdraw the officer? I bet the odds of this ever happening are pretty much nonexistent.

If you want to outtdraw a cop, one strategy would be to get it into your hand first without the cop being suspicious. After that, it's a fraction of a second to point and fire. Can you tell me roughly how many cops have been shot at without warning or provocation during routine stops, say in the last decade?

As for concrete examples of notifications followed by attacks, I've seen plenty of videos where the suspect acted cooperative before suddenly attacking when the cop was less than alert. I'm not sure what tracking agency would keep examples of the exact fact pattern of "I have a gun, sir" followed by shooting.

But we rely on possibilities without examples all the time; how many fallout shelters do we have in the USA, and how many nuclear attacks have we suffered?

What are the odds that you will ever need to have carried with a round chambered in your gun in order to effectively defend yourself some day? I ask for examples of that all the time, and nothing conclusive ever is produced, but the echo chamber insists that carrying without a round already chambered is "like carrying a brick" (true, if you know of bricks that can be manipulated in less than a second to spit out metal projectiles at Mach 1).

I suppose it depends on what your preconceptions and biases are. Cop haters will always see a bad shooting, cop lovers (like the FOP) will always see justification, and those of us in the middle will look at the evidence each time. To me, I see a known-to-be-armed citizen who was suspected of a recent robbery, who was shot while ignoring police commands. He probably wasn't going for his gun, he probably wasn't going to kill the cop, he probably wasn't even the same guy who robbed the place a few days before, he was just a guy who totally ignored all traffic laws. But the cop didn't know that, he only saw a guy reaching for something and ignoring him. And THAT fact pattern has happened a lot, as perps reach for guns and ignore police commands while they get set to kill the cops.

I don't care if he was reaching for a lollipop, he shouldn't have been reaching for anything while 2 armed cops were standing there and one of them was panicking about the gun he had.

My job doesn't require me to accept "I probably won't die right now" as a minute by minute dynamic. Nobody is chanting that lawyers should be killed and fried. Nobody is targeting lawyers for assassination (except for Democrats targeting Republican lawmakers who happen to be lawyers).

I'm glad of that. I'm glad that legal research basically results in zero deaths, unlike traffic stops.

When I'm stopped by cops, I'm going to continue to obey commands, and be willing to hold them accountable in the courts, later, for any wrongful orders. I have no interest in swelling my estate with the proceeds of a wrongful death lawsuit, I want to be alive to continue to annoy evil-doers everywhere.

[streaker69]

If you want to outtdraw a cop, one strategy would be to get it into your hand first without the cop being suspicious. After that, it's a fraction of a second to point and fire. Can you tell me roughly how many cops have been shot at without warning or provocation during routine stops, say in the last decade?

As for concrete examples of notifications followed by attacks, I've seen plenty of videos where the suspect acted cooperative before suddenly attacking when the cop was less than alert. I'm not sure what tracking agency would keep examples of the exact fact pattern of "I have a gun, sir" followed by shooting.

[Yoder]

This cop was a fucking coward. There should be an obligation to see an actual threat, not I thought he was going to do something. He had his gun drawn on the guy, how was he going to get shot? The guy would have to draw his gun and awkwardly turn it and point it at the cop before the cop could get shot. All the cop had to do was squeeze the trigger. He should be in jail. If you think this cop did a good job, you are a fucking idiot.

[Marcus99]

This cop was a fucking coward. There should be an obligation to see an actual threat, not I thought he was going to do something. He had his gun drawn on the guy, how was he going to get shot? The guy would have to draw his gun and awkwardly turn it and point it at the cop before the cop could get shot. All the cop had to do was squeeze the trigger. He should be in jail. If you think this cop did a good job, you are a fucking idiot.

Under your thinking many more cops would be dead. What if a criminal reaches into his coat pocket and pulls the trigger. The cop never SAW the threat.

[Carnes]

This cop was a fucking coward. There should be an obligation to see an actual threat, not I thought he was going to do something. He had his gun drawn on the guy, how was he going to get shot? The guy would have to draw his gun and awkwardly turn it and point it at the cop before the cop could get shot. All the cop had to do was squeeze the trigger. He should be in jail. If you think this cop did a good job, you are a fucking idiot.

Demanding perfection from people that are factually imperfect is problematic, at best. What 'perfection' could you demand from the 'victim' in this circumstance?

The concept of 'reasonable' has to come into play, and should potentially be used more widely.

[dkf]

Under your thinking many more cops would be dead. What if a criminal reaches into his coat pocket and pulls the trigger. The cop never SAW the threat.

Better just shoot everyone that reaches into or even towards their pocket then just to make sure. Sure hes just getting his drivers license but there could be a WMD or an RPG in there. Of course this kind of force can only be justifiably used by trained professionals. Gee what could go wrong.