Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #31
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
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    Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
    (Allegheny County)
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    Default Re: Philando Castile verdict not a good omen for concealed carriers

    Quote Originally Posted by mightypudge View Post
    At a recent workshop I was told to following the following steps in a traffic stop:

    • Car off, window down, interior light on (if at night)
    • Hands at 10 & 2 until the officer asks to see my credentials.
    • Hand over my DL and insurance.
    • Survive the traffic stop.


    Now I am starting to doubt that I should say anything at all unless asked.
    Edited for what I do. My LTCF and whether or not I'm carrying is none of their god damned business. But I'm polite and direct with yes/no sir/ma'am. I'll even engage in idle chit chat.
    Life has a melody.

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Franklin, Pennsylvania
    (Venango County)
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    Default Re: Philando Castile verdict not a good omen for concealed carriers

    I agree somewhat with Gunlawyer.

    I think blacks want to make a political statement and / or a permit holder believes their permit is a bullet proof vest.

    When a confrontation occurs and a gun is pointed at you, it is not a time for pushing agendas. Deescalate. Time to put on your emotional quotient hats and put yourself in the place of your 'opressor' or the person holding you at gun point. Build rapport, think what you would want you to do if you were in their place. Survive the incident, sue later.

    Also, one doesn' know if you fit descriptions of felons etc.

    So if a cop accosts you at gun point, put your hands up to show you are unarmed but keep walking towards them and ignore all their commands? Make your point that way but don't be surprised if you are not around for the post incident interviews.

    I have been at the business end of firearms a couple of times in my life. I cooperated immediately in once case (non-cop) and in another I went quiet and slowly moved away at night on the DMZ in Korea. (And yes, the bolt was on 5.56 and yes I heard the round chamber-not an empty bolt going forward!)
    It is you. You have all the weapons that you need. Now fight. --Sucker Punch

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
    (Philadelphia County)
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    Default Re: Philando Castile verdict not a good omen for concealed carriers

    Quote Originally Posted by philadelphia patriot View Post
    Some of the best training I did involved a special firearm hooked up to an interactive screen that was controlled by another person. You were placed in various scenarios and had to interact with the people on the screen. Anything could have happened. I think departments should mandate it and give it yearly to their officers. It can get very intense, but part of the training is aimed at helping give you a cool, calm head, but remaining vigilant for anything.





    I agree, the F.A.T.S. Training is actually more relevant than range training, once one has demonstrated marksmanship and that they can safely and competently handle a firearm.

    I saw a news clip awhile ago where reporters and community activists got a chance to participate in a few training scenarios. The outcome was very eye opening.

    I think it would be very interesting and educational if a few Poofa folks could experience a couple training scenarios from an officers side of the firearm.

  4. #34
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania
    (Cumberland County)
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    Default Re: Philando Castile verdict not a good omen for concealed carriers

    I think part of the problem is the training. Police are trained that everyone is trying to kill them constantly, they also train to always be ready to shoot someone.

    Maybe we need several types of police. Traffic types who are not armed, issue tickets or use video in order in order to mail them? Then the armed guys for executing warrants.

    I know getting pulled over in dillsburg, tiny town, with my family in the car and the cop acting like he is ready to shoot me and making threats about impounding my car, is not needed.

    The current system is not working very well. Many people are losing their confidence in the police to actually get their job done and are also losing their trust of them.

    How many of the training videos have armed people and the goal isn't to shoot them?

    Maybe the police should have duty to retreat until a gun is actually out or a shot fired?

  5. #35
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania
    (Cumberland County)
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    Default Re: Philando Castile verdict not a good omen for concealed carriers

    Quote Originally Posted by ViperGTS19801 View Post
    I fucking hate that I agree with Phil here. This man was needlessly slaughtered all because of the collective stupidity of three separate entities - the state's, the cop's, and his own.

    Must Inform laws are terrible, dangerous ideas. They only lead to additional tension, and have ZERO effect on people who aren't already legally possessing a firearm in the first place.

    Cops need to be able to issue direct, specific orders when presented with certain circumstances. "Put your hands on the wheel NOW" instead of "don't reach for it" would likely have prevented this.

    Why did Philando think that he needed to reach into his pants AFTER informing the officer? Unless you keep your Driver's License in the holster with your firearm, there's no reason for that.

    I'm shaking after having watched the video. The cop may have justifyably been found not guilty in court...but the family is going to catch a hell of a windfall.
    He might keep the license on the same side as his gun. Probably also told to never reach or move before the cops get to you. Maybe the 28 other times he was pulled over he informed the cop and then reached for and handed them his papers.
    This whole cop traffic thing is a mess and should just end.

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    DELCO, Pennsylvania
    (Delaware County)
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    Default Re: Philando Castile verdict not a good omen for concealed carriers

    Quote Originally Posted by Muscle Master View Post
    I love my 2013 Ford Fusion... the stock visor clip puts me at ease when reaching for my credentials... I don't have to reach no where but up
    I've always been advised it's best to keep your insurance card in the vehicle and your license and registration on your person, i.e., in your wallet. That way, if the car is stolen the thief doesn't have the owner's card, too. Maybe not a big deal in then end, especially once the car is reported stolen, but still, depending on circumstances, you may not know for some time a car was stolen.
    "Everyone is entitled to my opinion."

  7. #37
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Chambers Hill, Pennsylvania
    (Dauphin County)
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    Default Re: Philando Castile verdict not a good omen for concealed carriers

    I've been advised to keep registration and insurance in the car, so that someone who has permission to drive the vehicle has those documents if needed. May not be an issue for a single person, families it may be an issue with multiple drivers.

  8. #38
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Upper Darby, Pennsylvania
    (Delaware County)
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    51
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    Default Re: Philando Castile verdict not a good omen for concealed carriers

    Quote Originally Posted by Gman106 View Post
    I've always been advised it's best to keep your insurance card in the vehicle and your license and registration on your person, i.e., in your wallet. That way, if the car is stolen the thief doesn't have the owner's card, too. Maybe not a big deal in then end, especially once the car is reported stolen, but still, depending on circumstances, you may not know for some time a car was stolen.
    Quote Originally Posted by archie19 View Post
    I've been advised to keep registration and insurance in the car, so that someone who has permission to drive the vehicle has those documents if needed. May not be an issue for a single person, families it may be an issue with multiple drivers.
    Maybe if we didn't have a "Papers, bitte" society...

  9. #39
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    Oct 2008
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    Nondescript building with no windows
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    Default Re: Philando Castile verdict not a good omen for concealed carriers

    I love the suggestion about having traffic cops be unarmed. Gonna be a lot of people lining up for that job I bet.

  10. #40
    Join Date
    May 2006
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    127.0.0.1, Pennsylvania
    (Lancaster County)
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    Default Re: Philando Castile verdict not a good omen for concealed carriers

    Quote Originally Posted by fuzzywuzzy View Post
    I love the suggestion about having traffic cops be unarmed. Gonna be a lot of people lining up for that job I bet.
    It works in the UK.
    Rules are written in the stone,
    Break the rules and you get no bones,
    all you get is ridicule, laughter,
    and a trip to the house of pain.

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