Philando Castile verdict not a good omen for concealed carriers

[Krichardson]

Yeah!....tell em CB!

[rimmer]

Minnesota is the Midwest's version of the East and West coast

[Defender]

I was surprised at the verdict also, but none of us were in the courtroom either to hear all the evidence and then to rule on whether the cops actions were within the law. Apparently the jurors thought that the cop was within the law and were not convinced "beyond a reasonable doubt" that he was guilty. They erred towards the defendant's side and if I am ever on trial that is the way I hope the jurors would look at my case.

[ArcticSplash]

Dashcam video released

http://www.fox29.com/news/262704927-story

[ArcticSplash]

Watched this 3 times so far.

Still looks like an execution to me. I'm sure the jury was handedly persuaded. Nonetheless I listened to everything Yanez said on tape. Maybe the defense attorney can sell a paperback explaining how everyone is wrong and he's right.

[ett]

Watched this 3 times so far.

Still looks like an execution to me. I'm sure the jury was handedly persuaded. Nonetheless I listened to everything Yanez said on tape. Maybe the defense attorney can sell a paperback explaining how everyone is wrong and he's right.

Same here. I watched the video multiple times. And it does look like officer Yanez simply executed Castile out of Yanez's own cowardness of people other than cops being allowed to have guns.
Until I see evidence that Castile was truly pulling out his weapon; I will not believe a word Yanez says.

[ArcticSplash]

Same here. I watched the video multiple times. And it does look like officer Yanez simply executed Castile out of Yanez's own cowardness of people other than cops being allowed to have guns.
Until I see evidence that Castile was truly pulling out his weapon; I will not believe a word Yanez says.

I think it spun around on an officer's use of force provision. Basically the cop was scared and that's all that's necessarily to ventilate the dude.

Here's PA's version of the Use of Force clause, similar to most other states...
DCynVmmXoAA5rPD.jpg

Spitballing here, but I'm guessing MN's UOF is more liberal than PA's.

So yeah... "justifiable" use of force there. Officer Yanez gets the keys to the city. The defense here isn't going to win in the Court of Public Opinion. And I've seen plenty of bodycam vid where those "furtive movements" obviously went for a weapon, even if you couldn't see it right away. What perp tells a cop he has a carry license and a firearm up front? How often does that happen. And toss out the instances where a weapon was discovered on a search and the perp's lying about its legality. I'd like to know how often a peace officer encounters someone in a traffic stop, who gets a tell from a driver straight away, and then the driver goes bananas.

Must happen all the time, those deadly broken tail lights.

[GunLawyer001]

Watched this 3 times so far.

Still looks like an execution to me. I'm sure the jury was handedly persuaded. Nonetheless I listened to everything Yanez said on tape. Maybe the defense attorney can sell a paperback explaining how everyone is wrong and he's right.

All 12 members of the jury disagree with you, so you may want to check the definition of "everyone".

What I see is a cop telling a man not to pull out his gun, then telling him again, and then screaming it again, then shooting.

We can't see what's happening inside the car, but the inference is that the guy was NOT obeying the only instruction the cop gave, which was to not pull out his gun.

Perhaps the dead guy was thinking "it's OK, I can ignore what the cop is saying because I know that I'm reaching for my wallet".

Maybe.

If it were me, despite being white-privileged and all, as soon as the cop repeats himself with an elevated urgency in his tone, I'll FREEZE. That cop won't be screaming at me "DON'T PULL IT OUT!!" a third time because I'll be sitting there with my hands motionless, like a wax dummy.

-"Sir I do have to tell you, I have a firearm on me."
"Um hm. OK. Don't reach for it then."
"Don't pull it out."
"Don't PULL IT OUT!"
BANG!BANG!BANG!
"DON'T PULL IT OUT!!"

This is entirely consistent with the dead guy reaching for something at his waist, at the front, side or back. Ignoring the frantic commands to stop. He was oblivious, despite knowing enough to announce that he had a gun on him.

I've seen too many videos of perps casually pulling guns and shooting cops without provocation. That's how it looks, they ignore the cop's orders and reach into their pockets or under their shirt or into their car, and a fraction of a second later a cop is being shot.

I hate police excesses. I hate the notion that little people with guns are presumed to be bad guys.

But when a suspect (he was a robbery suspect, this wasn't just about the dead bulb) defies basic orders, it's like sticking a fork into an electric outlet.

Watch this one, where the cop knew he didn't have to shoot, right up until he got killed:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/new...m-veteran.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuMTj0wT6Cs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhRLO02HXRM

[ArcticSplash]

You and I are both white, I'm guessing.

We'll be pretty-much OK as long as the 10-and-2 grip is on the steering wheel and the movements are slow. And we will both get the luxury of being able to make movements like reaching in center consoles or retrieving drivers licenses out of wallets when stopped, because that's normal to us.

I'm guessing if you were a Philando, you should probably have the license/registration inside your vanity mirror, and you have less than 30 seconds to get that ready and on the dash before the officer comes, because any hand reaching for the center console or anywhere means your kid is not going to have a father.


That's after you disclose up-front you're carrying and have a permit.


And listening to Yanez, it's full of "I think I saw", "he was making a C-type thing with his hand".


Yanez also didn't actually see any gun at all.

http://www.citypages.com/news/interv...-gun/429733013

Yanez was recorded saying to Sunde: “[Castile] was sitting in the car, seat belted. I told him, can I see your license. And then, he told me he had a firearm. I told him not to reach for it and (sigh) when he went down to grab, I told him not to reach for it (clears throat) and then he kept it right there, and I told him to take his hands off of it, and then he (sigh) he had his, his grip a lot wider than a wallet.”

But...

They include the BCA’s interviews with Castile’s girlfriend Diamond Reynolds; paramedic Eric Torgerson who witnessed an officer “put his hand quite a ways down” Castile’s pocket to remove a gun; Yanez's partner Joseph Kauser, who said he was surprised to hear shots fired; and a critical interview with Yanez the day after the shooting.

Yanez could not directly see any firearm. And, it could be equally possible that Castile could have been shot anyway if he was under the supposition that he could "hand" the officer his weapon, which is a really bad thing to do.


Nobody who gets a concealed carry license ever gets pointers/tips or any such information that lets them know---hey, he's pulling you over for something, expect to be executed unless you very-carefully follow these specific steps [and even then, that's no guarantee you won't be ventilated].

[GunLawyer001]

You and I are both white, I'm guessing.

We'll be pretty-much OK as long as the 10-and-2 grip is on the steering wheel and the movements are slow. And we will both get the luxury of being able to make movements like reaching in center consoles or retrieving drivers licenses out of wallets when stopped, because that's normal to us.

I'm guessing if you were a Philando, you should probably have the license/registration inside your vanity mirror, and you have less than 30 seconds to get that ready and on the dash before the officer comes, because any hand reaching for the center console or anywhere means your kid is not going to have a father.


That's after you disclose up-front you're carrying and have a permit.


And listening to Yanez, it's full of "I think I saw", "he was making a C-type thing with his hand".


Yanez also didn't actually see any gun at all.

http://www.citypages.com/news/interv...-gun/429733013

[COLOR=#000000][FONT=FFMoreWebProBook]

But...




Yanez could not directly see any firearm. And, it could be equally possible that Castile could have been shot anyway if he was under the supposition that he could "hand" the officer his weapon, which is a really bad thing to do.


Nobody who gets a concealed carry license ever gets pointers/tips or any such information that lets them know---hey, he's pulling you over for something, expect to be executed unless you very-carefully follow these specific steps [and even then, that's no guarantee you won't be ventilated].

Cops kill more white people than black people every year, so give the white privilege a rest, pal. It's a myth, as proven by the absence of cooperative black guys with no criminal records being killed and used as poster children for bad cops. At least 5 of the last 6 "victims" were career criminals, and if the Sharptonesque race-baiters had better examples than these criminal thugs, they'd have used them.

If you obey cop commands and don't act stupidly, odds are you won't get shot, no matter what color or religion or ethnicity you are.