Open vs Concealed carry ..Where is the line between which is which?

[SteveO666]

So I take my dogs out at night and for the most part I am either in my driveway, Lawn, or the Neighbors' Driveway(Driveways are attached). It is typically around 11pm and Most nights all I am wearing is Gym shorts and a T-Shirt except in the Winter when I will throw on a sweatshirt.

So where is the line between what is considered 'Concealed' and require me to have my PA LTCF and 'Open' which I would not need my PA LTCF on me?

If I carry say a Glock 43 in an IWB holster and tuck the Tshirt in behind the gun is that consider Concealed or Open?
Obviously( or not) I wouldnt have pockets so carrying my wallet would be cumbersome.

I have read the articles here (http://www.pafoa.org/law/carrying-firearms/ ) but there doesn't seem to be a clear definition.

Thanks for the info,
Steve

[Manxdriver]

On your property? There is no line, do what you want to do citizen! Welcome to FREEDOM!

[SteveO666]

Yeqah I was thinking the same thing but I read this from the link above
18 Pa.C.S. § 6106: Firearms not to be carried without a license
(a) Offense defined.--Any person who carries a firearm in any vehicle or any person who carries a firearm concealed on or about his person, except in his place of abode or fixed place of business, without a valid and lawfully issued license under this chapter commits a felony of the third degree.

While my Driveway is my property I am not sure it would be considered part of my 'abode', which could be considered only the house itself.
Also my dogs have a tendency to wander into the neighbors yard and can be stubborn on returning.
Thanks

[knight0334]

PA doesn't have a definition. But it would likely use the common definition used elsewhere of open carry. And this where the firearm is carried in a manner that is can be recognized as a weapon in plain view.

There was a man in PA that was convicted of carrying concealed even though the handgun was in the open. He had used his body intentionally to hide the gun from plain view(intentionally turned his body so the gun was hidden).

So, if you are going to carry openly without a LTCF - make sure the firearm is recognizable as a gun, that it is in plain view, and that you do not intentionally try to shield its presence from others.


PA exempts carrying concealed on or abouts your person, and vehicle transporting, for only a few certain activities and destinations. The most unregulated place is within your abode(inside your home proper, the structure itself). Your abode is your home, not your lands or even your curtilage(immediate controlled surroundings). If you live in an apartment/duplex/etc type dwelling, the common areas are not considered your abode(case law backing that up).

[Statkowski]

I believe the courts have ruled that curtilage (front porch, etc.) does not qualify for the concealed exception.

If you don't have an LTCF, then get one; then you're covered. Or open carry for all the world to see - no LTCF required.

Nothing in the law directly says you have to carry the LTCF on your person. If carrying concealed, it says you have to have one. It also says you have to be able to produce it upon lawful demand of a police officer.

Be bold. Be brave. Show the world you're not afraid. Open Carry.

[bogey1]

The most unregulated place is within your abode(inside your home proper, the structure itself). Your abode is your home, not your lands or even your curtilage(immediate controlled surroundings). If you live in an apartment/duplex/etc type dwelling, the common areas are not considered your abode(case law backing that up).

Yeah that's strange you are not allowed to cc without a license even on your
own property. (outside the house)

[CB57]

When it's questionable, the cop could always just arrest you and let the courts sort it out. We pay for their legal fees.

Not that I'm an authority on that, but I suspect that sort of thing has happened before. I've read a story or two on these forums from folks unhappy with cops.

I think it's called "sloppy carry" when it's not completely open carry, not that there's such an official legal term. A cop would likely argue it needs to be completely uncovered to count as open carry.

[Jhaydeno]

Yes, 'abode' hasn't been clearly defined. Somewhere in here there's a story of a guy in Philly who was arrested on his front porch (OC in a city of first class, no LTCF, not 'abode', etc), and the courts were left to sort it out. Unfortunately, as we may expect coming out of Philly schools, the defendant's reading and writing skills were less than stellar, and the tread went downhill quickly. I don't recall the outcome....

just spend the $20 for an LTCF if you haven't already, and push your local rep for constitutional carry.

[CB57]

Yes, 'abode' hasn't been clearly defined. Somewhere in here there's a story of a guy in Philly who was arrested on his front porch (OC in a city of first class, no LTCF, not 'abode', etc), and the courts were left to sort it out. Unfortunately, as we may expect coming out of Philly schools, the defendant's reading and writing skills were less than stellar, and the tread went downhill quickly. I don't recall the outcome....

just spend the $20 for an LTCF if you haven't already, and push your local rep for constitutional carry.

Do you know if he got a pro bono lawyer?

[john9001]

Gun laws are arbitrary, confusing and contradicting.