full auto / SBR question

[elitefirearms]

We are a class 3 dealer here but there is something i dont understand.
The Bushmaster carbon 15 pistol comes with a rail under the handguard. Whats to stop someone from putting a vert grip on it therefore making it an SBR. Yet its illegal to drill a 3rd pin hole in an AR receiver for the full auto sear. I know you can buy a shorty upper for you AR and make it an SBR but you cant buy them like that over then counter. So I guess the question is how can Bushmaster sell their pistol witha rail on their handguard. It can be used for other things of course like lights and lasers but maybe the hole I want to drill in my AR (and I never would I have a few legal fullautos to shoot if I want) is for weight reduction or to "cool off the springs". Im just curious how this is possible.

[XD45]

We are a class 3 dealer here but there is something i dont understand.
The Bushmaster carbon 15 pistol comes with a rail under the handguard. Whats to stop someone from putting a vert grip on it therefore making it an SBR. Yet its illegal to drill a 3rd pin hole in an AR receiver for the full auto sear. I know you can buy a shorty upper for you AR and make it an SBR but you cant buy them like that over then counter. So I guess the question is how can Bushmaster sell their pistol witha rail on their handguard. It can be used for other things of course like lights and lasers but maybe the hole I want to drill in my AR (and I never would I have a few legal fullautos to shoot if I want) is for weight reduction or to "cool off the springs". Im just curious how this is possible.

Same thing that stops you from taking that pistol upper and putting it on a completed rifle lower without the proper forms or even buying an M16 FCG for that matter--NOTHING, except the knowledge if its found out you'll be in hotel fed sharing a room w/ bubba for 10yrs, which tends to be a good enough reason for me. I don't see anything wrong with it as long as they make it known you can't put a VFG on it(wouldn't surprise me if that piece of info isnt provided though, but that isn't really their duty either), and like you said you can put lights, lasers, bipods, ect. But simply just because the VFG can attach to the rail, doesn't make the rail illegal not really sure why a class 3 dealer would need to ask that?!

[Stooperzero]

I know you can buy a shorty upper for you AR and make it an SBR but you cant buy them like that over then counter. So I guess the question is how can Bushmaster sell their pistol witha rail on their handguard.

You can buy em Over the counter already SBR'd , just costs more .


It's a "User responsibilty" thing. My truck has a speedometer that goes up to 120MPH, whats to stop it from going that fast? "ME"

[JayBell]

We are a class 3 dealer here but there is something i dont understand.
The Bushmaster carbon 15 pistol comes with a rail under the handguard. Whats to stop someone from putting a vert grip on it therefore making it an SBR. Yet its illegal to drill a 3rd pin hole in an AR receiver for the full auto sear. I know you can buy a shorty upper for you AR and make it an SBR but you cant buy them like that over then counter. So I guess the question is how can Bushmaster sell their pistol witha rail on their handguard. It can be used for other things of course like lights and lasers but maybe the hole I want to drill in my AR (and I never would I have a few legal fullautos to shoot if I want) is for weight reduction or to "cool off the springs". Im just curious how this is possible.

correction: adding a vertical grip to a pistol makes it an AOW...as a title II item dealer you should really really know that.

adding a buttstock to a pistol without changing the barrel to 16" or more makes it an SBR.

you CAN buy premade SBRs, "over the counter" once the NFA forms are approved and tax paid.

they put a rail on the handguard, its not illegal, putting the grip on without approval is.

ATF says drilling the right size hole in the appropriate spot makes a MG, so dont do that.

removing the block from a Colt sporter rifle doesn't make it a MG, even tho theres now a huge hole where the GI sear would go.

sear still wont fit and work, so its not a MG.

a user can put a rail on a pistol handguard just as well as a MFG, its not like the MFG is assisting someone in breaking the law.

what dont you understand?

[elitefirearms]

I work in the retail side of our store and dont do much with the class 3 stuff. It makes sense I just had a random thought.

[bloomautomatic]

Two bits of reading that answer most NFA questions.

Bardwells' NFA FAQ
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/usr/wba...st/nfa_faq.txt

For more in depth, there's the Machine Gun Dealers Bible by Dan Shea. About $30, but it contains a wealth of information on laws, forms, MG identification, etc.

Vince

[sluggie24]

A VFG means nothing on a rifle with a 16" or greater barrel. It does not turn into NFA because of the grip. Like Jaybell said putting one on a pistol would make an AOW. To make an SBR you would either have to put a shorter than 16" barrel on a rifle or put a stock on a pistol with a sub 16" barrel.


Edit:

Almost forgot.......once you have a registered machinegun you can do whatever you want to it without another stamp for AOW or SBR.

[LH Arms]

Machine gun trumps all on NFA things.

As a class 3 dealer, you can have it made into the machine gun, it will then be a dealer sample. Which is what you want to go out and play with. If it gets banged up or it blows up (doesn't happen often but it has happened), do you want a few hundred dollar gun or a few thousand dollar gun getting messed up??? .

Caution: If you only work at the shop and are not the FFL, then you cannot have the sample, it belongs to the shop/FFL.

[Mtdew]

Caution: If you only work at the shop and are not the FFL, then you cannot have the sample, it belongs to the shop/FFL.

That would depend on who is on the "responsible person" list

Own, no. Posess, potentially.

[GunLawyer001]

Machine gun trumps all on NFA things.
....

I think that DD trumps all. An auto cannon would be registered as a DD, not an MG. An auto rifle with a short barrel would just be an MG, not an SBR. However, an MP5-SD needs 2 stamps, one for the MG, one for the silencer.

You're of course correct than an MG can incorporate a variety of features that would individually be registerable as SBR's or AOW's.