JRA BM-59 issues

[Stampeed Valkyrie]

Just tossing this out here and seeing if anyone else is having similar issues.
I picked up a James River Armory.. BM-59 from Classic (yea, yea I know...) and finally got a chance to take it out to the range on Saturday.. Gun looks great... but functions horribly.
I have several issues all happening at once.. Failure to feed, Failure to extract, and in some instances the extractor is ripping the edge of the rim off. In one instance the gun cycled so quickly that the bolt caught the round as it was trying to load bending the brass and rending it useless.
At this point the gun fires 1 or 2 times before needing operator intervention.

At first I thought it was a magazine issue, but I have 5 of them (thanks to Sarco) and all 5 do the same thing. I also noticed some mag wobble almost as if they did not want to lock up correctly, Then they would and just get loose again. This was occurring with all 5 Magazines...
I was also told that this gun does not like commercial .308 so I brought several types out to play with.. Turkish ATI, ZQI (also turkish), and some random Nato head stamped ammo, and some South African M80 (I think) all performed the same.

After looking at several spent cases this rifle is chewing the hell out of the rims.. but nothing else plainly obvious. It's almost like it is severely over gassed..

Anyway I've reached out to Classic (good luck getting them on the phone) and I want to see what they suggest. I probably will also reach out to JRA if I don't hear back from Classic.

After all the glowing positives about this rifle.. I get the lemon.. lol.
In all seriousness though.. if this turns into an ammunition thing.. then this rifle is seriously picky on what it shoots and will probably be returned as it will turn into another safe queen and I'm not paying $1200 for a safe queen.

[wanneroo]

That's a shame. I was wondering about those rifles and how they truly worked in the field in the hands of actual users(youtube and gun mags always have a lot of hype). Parts kits guns always seem highly variable in function.

[39flathead]

I don't know what to tell you about the problems you're having, but be prepared to get your credit card company involved if you try to return it to Classic.
I know you said yea yea you know, well now you really know and that's a shame, sorry you get the displeasure of trying to deal with them now...

I'd skip them and call James River.

[762xIan]

A couple of possible problems here.

1. Headspace is incorrect, can you measure the brass before/after firing? Case gauge would be the best to check for this.

2. Gas port is too big giving you too much gas....I don't have any info on the proper port size for a BM-59 if it is different from a Garand.

3. Possibly weak spring as well adding to the problem.

I am leaning toward too much gas myself, though I would do a thorough cleaning of the chamber, any crap, grease, or a burr (as well as excessive headspace) can be causing the fired case to hang up and cause the rim to get ripped off.

If it is too much gas, depending on the model, an adjustable gas port may work.

[wellcraft]

I would contact the manufacturer to see if they can resolve the issue since they built the rifle. I don't see what classic can do other than agree to refund your money, I don't know anything about classic, what's their return policy? Good luck and I hope things work out for you.

[39flathead]

I would contact the manufacturer to see if they can resolve the issue since they built the rifle. I don't see what classic can do other than agree to refund your money, I don't know anything about classic, what's their return policy? Good luck and I hope things work out for you.

Classic is pretty much a scam outfit that has amazingly remained in business somehow mostly by offering some harder to find items that people go gaga over.

They screwed many people over on their Burns M39 buyout.
People still shop with them, probably because they scrubbed their bad reviews from their site and the owner of a major gun collectors site did the same on his site.
From their site:
"Classic Firearms does reserve the right to approve what reviews get posted to the website."

But the short answer is found under their returns policy:

Return Policy

Returns are very costly to internet sellers of firearms. Due to the expense incurred by returns, we make every effort to insure your order is shipped accurately and the product meets the standards of our advertising. If a return must be made, please note the following policies:

1.No returns will be accepted after 15 days of the delivery date.
2.You must first call to get a RMA # before returning any merchandise. Failure to do so will result in your return package not being accepted.
3.Return shipping charges are the responsibility of the customer in ALL instances except one in which we shipped you the incorrect item due to our error. If the incorrect product was shipped by our error, a call tag or return shipping label may be issued to return the item.
4.All returned items must be returned in the same condition in which we sent them. Classic Firearms reserves the right to evaluate the merchandise to determine if a refund or exchange will be made.
5.IMPORTANT – An RMA # and a detailed note explaining the reason must be included with all returns. Be sure to include all current contact information, ie, name, address, daytime phone number, email address and copy of invoice.
6.For all items under a manufacturer warranty, the customer should handle the return directly with the manufacturer.
7.No returns will be accepted on any parts kits for any reason, including missing/damaged parts. Buyer assumes all responsibility for missing/damaged parts, etc when ordering a parts kit.
8.No returns will be accepted for cosmetic issues, missing items, etc once the firearm(s) has been transferred to you by your FFL (dealer). ALWAYS inspect your firearm(s) PRIOR to accepting the transfer from your dealer.
9.Shipping charges are never refunded. If you return an item for any reason, please know we will not refund the shipping charges you incurred when we shipped the order to you. No exceptions.
10.If we have to send a return shipping label to get an item back from your FFL for any reason (not passing background check, FFL refusing to do the transfer, you changed your mind, etc), we will deduct the return shipping charges from your refund.

Refunds

1.Refunds will be issued in the same manner in which the original payment was made.
2.Credit Card refunds are subject to a 3% return fee.
3.Restocking Fee – If we deem a return was made without reasonable cause, or where we deem using our judgment the product meets the advertised condition, the refund will be charged a 15% restocking fee.
4.Canceled Orders – Any order canceled for any reason will be charged a 15% cancelation fee (maximum fee of $25.00).
5.Transfer Fees charged by your dealer – You should always inspect your firearm(s) PRIOR to completing the transfer with your dealer to whom the firearm(s) was shipped. Fees charged by a dealer transferring a firearm to the end user will not be refunded by Classic Firearms for any reason. These transactions are at the full risk and expense of the consumer.
6.Shipping charges are never refunded. If you return an item for any reason, please know we will not refund the shipping charges you incurred when we shipped the item to you. No exceptions.
7.If we have to send a return shipping label; to get an item back from your FFL for any reason (you failed background check, FFL refused to do the transfer, you changed you mind, etc), we will decudt the return shipping charges from your refund.



Note the bolded parts, this is where they have had great success in screwing people.
Number 3 under the Refunds part is particularly of note because this is how the got people who received busted M39's from them.

[Stampeed Valkyrie]

At this point I am not knocking Classic Arms.. they have been pretty helpful.

My problem now is with JRA. I tried reaching out to them yesterday and got the generic automated attendant voicemail where I left my name and number and never received a call back. I then followed up today and got a "Jennifer" on the phone, who did not seem to know much about the rifle and when I explained the issues she told me to use either "GGG" or Lake City M80 ammo and try again. She also mentioned getting the head spaced checked by using a Garand bolt.. Which I am not sure what she meant by that.

I did explain that if I switch M80 ammo types it's unlikely from what I am experiencing to solve the issues and if it does I am not interested in a Rifle that only functions properly with 1 or 2 types of surplus NATO M80 ammo.


At this point Classic is taking the lead on this and reaching out to JRA on my behalf..
Will update as it progresses.

[Tim Ault]

It's their rifle they built it the headspace shouldn't need checked it should have been within tolerance when it left their shop ! Even if the headspace is long functioning would still be ok IMO , I'd say overgassed and weak springs or both as been mentioned an adjustable gas port would be an easy and inexpensive experiment to see if it helps correct the issue if you don't get any satisfaction from the builder or seller .

Another thing you could try to see what's going on is to remove the gas plug and shoot a few rounds working the bolt manually and see what the brass looks like

[Stampeed Valkyrie]

I just spoke with JRA... it's going back to them to be checked out..
The rep confirmed that these rifles are very picky with ammunition.. I explained that nowhere in the sales documentation or on any of the forums does anyone mention anything about ammo specifics UNTIL you read the owners manual where it reads they recommend NATO "M80" type. I then pressed further as all the ammo I have used is M80 spec and still was having issues. I am almost wondering if this rifle is VERY picky even on M80 type ammo.

I did however pick up some GGG ammo from AIM to experiment... and because you never can have too much ammo .

[Stampeed Valkyrie]

Well it went back to JRA today to have it checked out.
We shall see.