DA/SA question for LEOs

[scruff]

How do you carry? Cocked and locked or with the gun decocked? As a previous poster stated you fight as you train. The answer is obvious.

I'll say something rude now....seems "independent contractor" is convenient for some things but not for independent decision making on how to carry your duty weapon? Cocked and locked here and Glock is not the answer nor is make it DA only especially in an advanced class.

The P226 is always carried decocked, because it doesn't have a safety. I don't want a gun with an external safety, because I like to Keep It Simple Stupid, but I like the added safety of the heavier DA pull. I seem to do OK with the heavier DA pull, since I scored 119 out of 120 on the qualifier.

This has nothing to do with real life. I'll do it in class if I have to, but I won't practice that way. This didn't affect my qual either, since I already qualified with my P226 and P229 yesterday before this came up. In the advanced class, we qualify cold on Friday, and then do fun stuff for the rest of the weekend. (In the regular class, they work on fundamentals and then qualify on Sunday.) I just resent having to do something stupid in class, and I'm wondering where this came from. I don't doubt that somewhere, some organization is or was doing this. He even told me "they'd" fail me if they saw me doing that in qualification, but I didn't get a chance to ask him who "they" are. I could only argue with him so much on the firing line in the middle of a drill.

[FJW]

It sounds more like conservative target practice than self-defense practice.
And sounds like the instructor is so concerned about safety, no one will have a chance to develop realistic muscle memory, so what's the point.

[scruff]

It sounds more like conservative target practice than self-defense practice.
And sounds like the instructor is so concerned about safety, no one will have a chance to develop realistic muscle memory, so what's the point.

It doesn't really matter at this point. We're past the drills now and are now running through courses one at a time. This afternoon, it was shoot/don't shoot courses. Shooting bad guy targets on the move, having to avoid good guy targets that come into play as the angles change, doing reloads and clearing jams, preferably behind cover. Tomorrow they add stress. Five instructors tagging along, barking orders and yelling at us while we run the course. Last year, somehow I got into the wrong pouch and pulled out my oc spray instead of a mag, with the instructors screaming at the same time "KEEP MOVING!" "SHOOT! SHOOT!" "CHALLENGE YOUR TARGET!" "RELOAD! RELOAD!". There will be so much going on that decocking at low ready will be the last thing on my mind.

It really is a good class, despite the decocking thing.

[Berncly]

While doing the drills, were you reholstering often, or only rarely?
Meaning, was the low ready the constant position throughout most of the drill, with very few draws from the holster?

Sometimes drills are designed to limit reholstering, in which case the low ready is considered the start position in lieu of drawing from the holster.
Were that the case here, then decocking in between sets would be appropriate, in order to simulate drawing decocked from the holster.

However, I would not expect to see this in any official capacity training, or any private training at an advanced level.
I don't know how constables train, so it's hard to put this into perspective.
But with the role of a constable as a "peace officer with limited policing authority", it is also possible that they don't want you walking around with a hair trigger.

If you have concerns about this, and you should, then you need to discuss it with the instructors before the next training session.

UncleJumbo is of course correct, and you should always train as you fight.
Inconsistent training is dangerous, and your mind needs to be clear and focused while you train, with no doubts about what you are supposed to be doing.

In my opinion, all serious firearm training should always be from the holster.
The low ready should only be incorporated within individual sets, to simulate a continuous fight where you had to come back on target unexpectedly after scanning for threats.
And accordingly, you would not decock at the low ready, and would only do so before reholstering.

[unclejumbo]

While doing the drills, were you reholstering often, or only rarely?
Meaning, was the low ready the constant position throughout most of the drill, with very few draws from the holster?

Sometimes drills are designed to limit reholstering, in which case the low ready is considered the start position in lieu of drawing from the holster.
Were that the case here, then decocking in between sets would be appropriate, in order to simulate drawing decocked from the holster.

However, I would not expect to see this in any official capacity training, or any private training at an advanced level.
I don't know how constables train, so it's hard to put this into perspective.
But with the role of a constable as a "peace officer with limited policing authority", it is also possible that they don't want you walking around with a hair trigger.

If you have concerns about this, and you should, then you need to discuss it with the instructors before the next training session.

UncleJumbo is of course correct, and you should always train as you fight.
Inconsistent training is dangerous, and your mind needs to be clear and focused while you train, with no doubts about what you are supposed to be doing.

In my opinion, all serious firearm training should always be from the holster.
The low ready should only be incorporated within individual sets, to simulate a continuous fight where you had to come back on target unexpectedly after scanning for threats.
And accordingly, you would not decock at the low ready, and would only do so before reholstering.

Definitely from a holster with all retention devices active.

The only way I could see a reason to decock is practicing scenarios where the gun is drawn due to potential threats and firing then from that low ready position. I'm thinking along the lines of having a weapon drawn while clearing a burglarized building & running a shoot/don't shoot at a violent incident. It makes no sense however to decock between strings of fire like double tap drills etc.

[scruff]

While doing the drills, were you reholstering often, or only rarely?
Meaning, was the low ready the constant position throughout most of the drill, with very few draws from the holster?

Sometimes drills are designed to limit reholstering, in which case the low ready is considered the start position in lieu of drawing from the holster.
Were that the case here, then decocking in between sets would be appropriate, in order to simulate drawing decocked from the holster.

However, I would not expect to see this in any official capacity training, or any private training at an advanced level.
I don't know how constables train, so it's hard to put this into perspective.
But with the role of a constable as a "peace officer with limited policing authority", it is also possible that they don't want you walking around with a hair trigger.

If you have concerns about this, and you should, then you need to discuss it with the instructors before the next training session.

UncleJumbo is of course correct, and you should always train as you fight.
Inconsistent training is dangerous, and your mind needs to be clear and focused while you train, with no doubts about what you are supposed to be doing.

In my opinion, all serious firearm training should always be from the holster.
The low ready should only be incorporated within individual sets, to simulate a continuous fight where you had to come back on target unexpectedly after scanning for threats.
And accordingly, you would not decock at the low ready, and would only do so before reholstering.

I agree, I would never do it in the real world, but I didn't know if this was standard in some organizations. Like NYC's 12-lb DAO triggers - no thinking person would ever intentionally choose that trigger, but it's mandatory for thousands of cops. I wanted to ask around here before broaching the issue with them tomorrow, since there was the slight possibility that this was a "thing" with some agencies that I didn't know about. As stupid as it sounds to me, I don't ever doubt the government's ability to mandate stupid things, especially when it comes to guns.

As for the drills and qualifier, it's typical to have two mags with 6 rounds each, draw from the holster, shoot one, two or three rounds with each "fire" command, reload and holster when empty, and then repeat the process for the second mag. So it's a mixture of drawing from the holster (with all retention features activated) and pausing at low ready.

[Berncly]

I agree, I would never do it in the real world, but I didn't know if this was standard in some organizations. Like NYC's 12-lb DAO triggers - no thinking person would ever intentionally choose that trigger, but it's mandatory for thousands of cops. I wanted to ask around here before broaching the issue with them tomorrow, since there was the slight possibility that this was a "thing" with some agencies that I didn't know about. As stupid as it sounds to me, I don't ever doubt the government's ability to mandate stupid things, especially when it comes to guns.

As for the drills and qualifier, it's typical to have two mags with 6 rounds each, draw from the holster, shoot one, two or three rounds with each "fire" command, reload and holster when empty, and then repeat the process for the second mag. So it's a mixture of drawing from the holster (with all retention features activated) and pausing at low ready.

Yeah, you need to talk to them and get it cleared up.
Could be as simple as an instructor not used to dealing with SA/DA, since most LEO's use DAO now.
In the drill your describing, I would not expect them to have you decock at the low ready.

[gghbi]

If they did not require safties 'on' for those that had them, they should not be requring you to decock is my opinion. Let us know what you find out.

[Biggfoot44]

The answer you don't want to hear is that was fairly common doctrine in the DA/SA Era .

The good news is that IF your pistol has a decent DA pull, AND you have experience with DA triggers ( primarily with DA revolvers) , it's not that big a deal.

The rapid dominence of Glocks and the subsequent functional clones made the issue moot.

[Gripsafety]

I know absolutely nothing about LEO training and procedures, and my military training was with a 1911.

I use a DA/SA for USPSA, and there we load, decock and holster, but once the gun is out of the holster we shoot, change mags and run around without decocking the gun.

I've done some NRA classes in self defense, and decocking when going to low ready and assessing possible additional threats was never mentioned.