DA/SA question for LEOs

[scruff]

The stupidity of it is that a Glock, or S&W M&P or a Springfield XD or any other striker fired pistol has a trigger pull that is comparable to the single action trigger pull of a Sig DA/SA. We had DAOs for a time in our Beretta 96D which was a long and relatively heavy trigger pull. Far different than the Glocks we were subsequently issued.

If they want a heavy trigger put then they're going to have to ban all striker fired guns unless modified with a NY trigger. Both Sigs in single action and striker fired guns have the triggers running between 4.5 and 5.5 pounds in real world testing.

More importantly, what are they doing with 1911s which have short, relatively light triggers? Safety on at lowered ready? Decocking? If not, their training is retarded and you're welcome to tell them a PSP firearms instructor said so.

That was my first argument to them, that my SA trigger pull isn't significantly different than the other guns on the line.

Philosophically, my goal is always to Keep It Simple, Stupid. AFAIC, the less gun handling, the better. Every action is an opportunity to make a mistake. Take away that action, and you take away the opportunity to make a mistake. The other day, I stopped by a friend's house. I just ended a phone call, so I was wearing my bluetooth headset. I tossed my headset into a cubby in the console (I thought), picked up a couple of things on the passenger seat that I was taking inside, and then I realized I was still wearing the headset, so I threw it in the cubby. As soon as I closed the car door, I realized I had locked my keys in the car. The first time I thought I had stowed the headset, I had actually tossed the keys instead. Brain farts happen. With keys, and with guns. I seriously believe that the danger of manipulating the gun more than necessary outweighs any benefit of decocking.

I think these guys are great instructors, but in the end, I'm going to do what I think is best for me.

[Berncly]

in the end, I'm going to do what I think is best for me.

Which is what?

[scruff]

Sights off target de-cock is what I was taught, is what every instructor from whom I've ever attended a class has also taught, and is what I teach. Same goes for SA's (1911's and M&P's with thumb safeties, etc.) meaning sights off target, safety engaged.

Simply stated the firearm should never be in "fire" mode at low ready. Firearms with passive safeties have an inherent advantage (glock's, etc.) and no I am not endorsing striker fired handguns, just stating the obvious in this specific circumstance.

This is especially true when moving as you indicated in the specific CoF you mention.

I would agree with you in principle that the video in question is probably not the best example and would agree that unless she had been engaging the threat, she was probably in DA mode.

I'm surprised to hear that. A while back, I took a Randy Cain/Fire Institute class with a Beretta 92 and that never came up. I had a problem in that class, since I sometimes accidentally activated the safety when racking the slide, then at the next "fire" command, I'd pull the trigger and get nothing. I sold the gun after that. That stupid slide-mounted safety/decocker combo is what got me started down the road to the KISS (keep it simple stupid) philosophy.

[scruff]

Which is what?

Which is to not manipulate the gun more than I think is prudent.

[t1066]

I could do that. Or I could write a letter addressing a glaring training deficiency I've been made aware of. You're right about it being iffy as to whether it would do any good. I've found that idiots that come up with such ideas are incapable of seeing the error of their ways.

I wonder how they handle Berettas. Decock and leave the safety on or decock and take the safety off?

Should you choose to do either option, you have my thanks. And make sure to hit me up for the gas money if you any driving related to this. Constables are a variable bunch, but I'm happy to support anything that can improve our training.

[Berncly]

Which is to not manipulate the gun more than I think is prudent.

Is there a specific reason not to use a DAO for the training?

[scruff]

Is there a specific reason not to use a DAO for the training?

Sure. It would be foolish not to use my duty gun/belt/holster in the training, and we need to qualify with the specific gun(s) that we want to be certified to carry on duty.

[Berncly]

Sure. It would be foolish not to use my duty gun/belt/holster in the training, and we need to qualify with the specific gun(s) that we want to be certified to carry on duty.

That's a reason.
It would be wise to do 10 hours of range time on your own after you complete your certification, to solidify your own method and avoid a potential problem under pressure.

[markshere2]

Sights off target de-cock is what I was taught, is what every instructor from whom I've ever attended a class has also taught, and is what I teach. Same goes for SA's (1911's and M&P's with thumb safeties, etc.) meaning sights off target, safety engaged.

Simply stated the firearm should never be in "fire" mode at low ready. Firearms with passive safeties have an inherent advantage (glock's, etc.) and no I am not endorsing striker fired handguns, just stating the obvious in this specific circumstance.

This is especially true when moving as you indicated in the specific CoF you mention.

I would agree with you in principle that the video in question is probably not the best example and would agree that unless she had been engaging the threat, she was probably in DA mode.

"NEVER?"

Absolutes in a written form are usually not optimal.......

If I have drawn in a situation where the threat is not responding to the previous attempts to resolve the issue... My gun WILL be in a fire mode. At My side, unholstered, transitioning into low ready, pointed at the threat, I will be a finger movement away from firing.

SA DA, revolver, whatever I an carrying... matters not.

I will not handicap my chances at surviving the encounter.

[unclejumbo]

"NEVER?"

Absolutes in a written form are usually not optimal.......

If I have drawn in a situation where the threat is not responding to the previous attempts to resolve the issue... My gun WILL be in a fire mode. At My side, unholstered, transitioning into low ready, pointed at the threat, I will be a finger movement away from firing.

SA DA, revolver, whatever I an carrying... matters not.

I will not handicap my chances at surviving the encounter.

I agree. If the situation is dire enough to warrant a drawn weapon, it warrants quickest activation possible without adding fail points into the mix.