SOCOM looks to ditch 7.62

[EZ3]

https://bearingarms.com/bob-o/2017/0...2-nato-for-65/

So in other words, they want to re-invent the FAL (as it was originally designed)?

[FJW]

Someone needs to make a synthetic bullpup stock for this.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ag_m/42

[P89]

Why not? Everything old is new again. 6.5 right now sells like hot cakes.

The 6.5 is capable of dropping anything short of African big game. It's accurate as all hell, lighter recoil and now in SOCOM flavor.
What's not to love?

[raxar]

What's really funny is that the 6.5 carcano loaded with modern bullets and powder would basically be the ideal modern infantry cartridge, and its 126 years old.

[FJW]

What's really funny is that the 6.5 carcano loaded with modern bullets and powder would basically be the ideal modern infantry cartridge, and its 126 years old.

The Carcano was actually my "first love" rifle. They used to have them at Woolworth's when I was like 12. Later I read about how they are in fact a little poor in the metallurgical sense, so my boyhood crush kind of lost its spark. I still think Carcanos look sweet, but ammo is very rare now and I prefer something I can shoot with abandon. I kind of have an eye out for a pristine Swedish carbine, and Ive already let a few nice ones go....

[raxar]

The Carcano was actually my "first love" rifle. They used to have them at Woolworth's when I was like 12. Later I read about how they are in fact a little poor in the metallurgical sense, so my boyhood crush kind of lost its spark. I still think Carcanos look sweet, but ammo is very rare now and I prefer something I can shoot with abandon. I kind of have an eye out for a pristine Swedish carbine, and Ive already let a few nice ones go....

The weakness of the carcano action is something of a controversy. Some have said that in actual testing they hold up fine. It should also be noted that the germans converted them to 8mm mauser, so they can't be that weak. The ammo is also very easy to find these days, newly made reloadable brass cased stuff is pretty much everywhere.

[ungawa]

So they want to replace 5.56 as well with a polymer cased round. There goes fire superiority. The weapons will overheat twice as fast.

And they want the basic infantry rifle optimized for long range, where it is almost never used. Of course, they say 6.5 will be more effective at close range. With what type of ammo is that the case? Are our troops going to be carrying that type of ammo? 5.56 has better terminal ballistics than 7.62 with military ammo. And it will have better terminal ballistics than 6.5 with ball ammo, although I know we have changed ammo a bit, not sure what they plan to use for 6.5. Doubt it will be the stuff they shoot into gel on you tube.

Less terminal performance (MAYBE), rapid overheating (oh but we can carry more ammo, just can't shoot it), and slower engagement due to higher recoil. But now we can hit targets at ranges people don't shoot at. I assume we are going to rebuild our machineguns, too, so they can overheat faster? Or will they still be 7.62?

What people are doing now is fine. Have one or two battle rifles per squad. A SAW will put a hole straight through your head at 800 meters if you stick it up. It's not a cap gun. You want to play around with sniper rifle calibers? OK, that makes sense.

[Gunsnwater]

So long as it looks like planet of the apes or a 2x4 it's good to go for the non-gun owner types that get to decide.

[Ecclectic Collector]

Yup, the great battle rifle controversy heats up all over again.

The USA forced the 7.62x51mm cartridge and rifle on Europe in the early 1950s, then dumped it when Vietnam proved the 5.56mm round was well suited to jungle warfare conditions.

Now we're in long range shooting matches in the deserts and mountains again and the armed forces need to reach a bit out of the optimal range for the little bullet.

You can't have both. Elementary physics says as much. The army had P.O. Ackley doing experiments as far back as the 1930s with small bore rounds, including 6.8 mm. It was the original caliber the M-1 Garand was intended for until Douglas MacArthur personally quashed the caliber change. The resulting redesign incidentally nearly left the USA without a semi auto rifle when we went to war in 1941.

Perhaps a fundamental change in the way we make ammo will happen as technology allows new propellants and case material will allow for a newer cartridge that will give soldiers a better compromise for combat use for the varied missions we will need in the future.

This is not the first time long plateaus in technological improvement kept improvement static. Historically the Brown Bess Musket stayed the primary British service arm for nearly 120 years because smoothbore flintlocks were the best thing for the job until percussion caps and the Minie ball finally made them obsolete.

Frankly I think until we start fielding troops in outer space the conditions soldiers face are going to require a variety of weapons systems deployed on a tactical level. A mix of 7.62mm and 5.56mm as well as handguns is the best solution at this point. This armchair expert just doesn't see a major change making things better.

[Koli01]

Yup, the great battle rifle controversy heats up all over again.

The USA forced the 7.62x51mm cartridge and rifle on Europe in the early 1950s, then dumped it when Vietnam proved the 5.56mm round was well suited to jungle warfare conditions.

Now we're in long range shooting matches in the deserts and mountains again and the armed forces need to reach a bit out of the optimal range for the little bullet.

You can't have both. Elementary physics says as much. The army had P.O. Ackley doing experiments as far back as the 1930s with small bore rounds, including 6.8 mm. It was the original caliber the M-1 Garand was intended for until Douglas MacArthur personally quashed the caliber change. The resulting redesign incidentally nearly left the USA without a semi auto rifle when we went to war in 1941.

Perhaps a fundamental change in the way we make ammo will happen as technology allows new propellants and case material will allow for a newer cartridge that will give soldiers a better compromise for combat use for the varied missions we will need in the future.

This is not the first time long plateaus in technological improvement kept improvement static. Historically the Brown Bess Musket stayed the primary British service arm for nearly 120 years because smoothbore flintlocks were the best thing for the job until percussion caps and the Minie ball finally made them obsolete.

Frankly I think until we start fielding troops in outer space the conditions soldiers face are going to require a variety of weapons systems deployed on a tactical level. A mix of 7.62mm and 5.56mm as well as handguns is the best solution at this point. This armchair expert just doesn't see a major change making things better.

The original caliber of the Garand was .276 or 7 mm.