FTF 500 Mag Bullet in forcing cone, case full of unburned powder

[bwdavis59]

The title pretty much says it. I was down in Leadington MO at an outdoor range shooting my 500 Magnum. I had fired three rounds with no issue. The fourth round didn't fire because the primer wasn't seated fully, or the pocket is a little loose and the first hammer strike seats the primer, and when you drop the hammer on it again, it fires, so after waiting about a half minute with the gun downrange, I pulled the trigger, the cylinder advanced and index, and the hammer dropped. Pfffft! I've only heard that one other time when I was experimenting with reduced loads and had not nearly enough powder in the case to do the job. The bullet stuck midway in the barrel, I tapped it out from behind with a sectioned rod, no problem. This time though, it sounded like just the primer had ignited, no powder. And, I was locked up. Trigger immobile, cylinder wouldn't open or advance, done shooting that for the day. So I put another 20 rounds through my .45 and called it a day.
The rangeboss tried to help me with the 500, but I like to work slowly and carefully, so I decided to just take it home and have a look. Everything I found said, just tap the bullet back into the case, and it will be fine. I pushed a brass drift down the barrel and found the dowel rod I had tried to use at the range to push the bullet out. It had probably split, and was now wedged in the barrel. I decide before I started hitting anything, I'd try pushing. I took a long shank screwdriver, and poked it down the barrel and contacted the wooden dowel rod. I gave it a push and the bullet pushed out of the FC and the cylinder popped free. OK, great, much better than hammering on something. I figured I'd find the brass empty, and just feel dumb, but it wasn't. It had a full charge of W296 in it. It just didn't go off. The powder was kind of "fused" together like it maybe got hot but didn't burn. I'm going to try to attach a picture of what came out of the case below:

500MagFTF.jpg

Is this something that happens sometimes? You can see (hopefully) the land engagement on the round, it almost made it into the barrel. That little ball to the left was back by the primer, and the rest of the powder was kind of fused together at forming a dome shape at the mouth of the case.

Bruce

[DucatiRon]

What bullet is that ?

Dosen't appear to have a cannalure.

If these are supposed to be full house loads my bet is not enough crimp. Every time you fire the gun the bullet is jumping out of the case. By the time you fired 4, the last round had no case tension left to ignite the round. Poof you got a dud.

500 Mag needs more crimp than youd ever think of if running full loads. Bullets like an XTP have deep cannalures for positve crimp.

If running reduced loads use Berrys plated. The also have a cannalure. Stay away from Rainiers for the 500.

[WarPig1976]

What he said^^^^^ You're using the wrong bullets.

[Gunsnwater]

Had that happen on 357 and 44mag. Also 50AE loaded with Accurate number 9 leaves so much unburned balls it jams the eagle. I agree, strong crimp, hot primer. I had some GI 45 that had black tar around the inside of the moulth of the cases. Wish I knew what it was to use it on 50AE

[Delkal]

I agree that any bullet in a magnum revolver needs a good hard crimp. The recoil can (and will) push the bullet out of the case and lock up your cylinder.....

But that is NOT your problem with your squibb loads. The powder either ignites or it doesn't (and it does that before it knows if the bullet is crimped).

EDIT: My first guess it is bad primers or bad primer seating. The only other thing that comes to mind is that your bullets are seated too long and are resting on the front of the cylinder. That can give you a little "give" when the hammer falls and lead to erratic ignition. Make sure the rear of the case sits flush with the back of the cylinder with NO pressure. The cartridge should just drop straight in and be flush.

[bwdavis59]

Out of about 1200+ loads with different powders this is the only failure to ignite. I always weigh after loading to prevent gross mischarges and gage every round. The bad primer could have caused it I guess. I have had problems getting the LR primers seated, and getting them to stay seated. I noticed the primer on this round had been pushed out about .015" or so, but that will happen if the powder doesn't ignite. Thanks for your reply.
Bruce

[dkf]

Is it possible you had some tumbling media in the flash hole?

[bamboomaster]

Lots of great analysis here, so hopefully, I won't repeat most of it....

If you're using brass that has been fired before (especially not by you), some overly-enthusiastic cleaning/reaming the primer cup may have inadvertently enlarged the primer pocket for the errant round - which caused the primer to back-out ever so slightly from the recoil attributed to your three previous shots.

Additionally, primers have been known to fail - I've probably had two of them in the last 20,000 rounds (one malfunction I attribute to the brass, the second one to the primer) - and if you catch the squib early (it goes Pfft instead of BANG), the mess looks just like yours. Oddly, you can put a cigarette or grill lighter to the powder you saved - and most of it will still burn just fine.

And that's why squibb rods were invented!

But congratulations TO YOU are in order for recognizing something didn't sound right - and taking your time to figure things out and remove the obstruction. Otherwise, a result similar to this can occur:

Attachment 96242


Your timely recognition of the problem and your careful analysis is going to be a great resource on PAFOA, for experience is a dear teacher (and some will learn by no other)...

[Delkal]

Reread the OP's post. He had two FTFs, back to back. The first one the primer didn't detonate at all, The second was the squibb. This is not a one in a million bad primer and something is definitely wrong with how he loaded the ammo.

I would pull ALL of the bullets, you don't want to mess around with a 500 magnum. Then fire the primers only. They should all go off. Then recheck that the bullet is seated deep enough.

[cephas]

Primer contamination? When I started reloading many articles were written on use and handling of primers and contamination was a concern. Hand and machine priming systems have eliminated the handling of each individual primer but it is still in the realm of possibility.
What flavor of primers are you using in that bad boy?