Accuracy issues

[steelerfan]

I have a Savage model 11 with the synthetic stock in .308 that*bought new in 2009. The problem I have is that when I take it to the range it seems the first shot goes to point of aim but the following shots go all over the place, and I'm not saying a few inches, I'm talking about a foot and sometimes even more, and if I try to adjust the scope it's impossible to get it zeroed because of how badly the shots go to seemingly where ever they want.
I've*checked all the screws on the scope and rifle, I've tried multiple brands of ammo,*and tried 3 different scopes including a Nikon and the current Leupold scope with the same results.
It was shot very little the first year as I didn't really have anywhere I could go till later when I was able to my local gun club, otherwise if I had known there were issues I could have sent it back to Savage . I only shoot this rifle once a year at most because it's not much fun to shoot something when you can't always hit what you're aiming at.
It's been like this pretty much from the start but being it was my first higher powered centerfire rifle I figured that it was just me maybe flinching or something, but after firing other guys rifles without issues and them firing mine with the same results as me I know the issue is with the rifle.
Any ideas or suggestions ?
Thanks for any advise you can give me.

[ianb1116]

What's your barrel profile? You may be too hot for consistency. What do your groups look like? 3-4" or unmeasurable? I had a Savage 111 in .-06 that did the same. It had a very slim hunting profile barrel. Garbage for any type of range fun unless you waited a minute or two between shots, but where's the fun in that?

[bamboomaster]

There are many things that could be occurring, but let's try to narrow them down. Something is happening that is apparently uniform across three different scopes: could be the ammo, could be you, could be the scope, could be the rifle.

I'm gonna focus on the scopes and the way they are mounted because that was an issue that affected me.

Are you mounting a scope to a picatinny rail that was mounted on the rifle? If the point where you mount the scope to the receiver is loose, that could explain why the three different scopes don't work. All you have to do is dog those down and use some blue lock-tite while you're at it.

It also may have to do with the inch-pounds in tightening the rings to the rifle and the scope to the rings - they are usually two different recommended levels of "tightness". If you're uniformly "one grunt tight" on all your mounts, that may be too loose. If you're "two grunts tight", that may be too severe. Check to see if your scope rings come with recommended mounting instructions and the "inch-pounds" required. That's what a FAT Wrench is for - mounts everything uniformly to spec..

Maybe a picture of the rifle and scope mount would help so others could see what sometimes isn't obvious (like a scope getting mounted backwards - just kidding!).

[steelerfan]

What's your barrel profile? You may be too hot for consistency. What do your groups look like? 3-4" or unmeasurable? I had a Savage 111 in .-06 that did the same. It had a very slim hunting profile barrel. Garbage for any type of range fun unless you waited a minute or two between shots, but where's the fun in that?

It has a standard hunting barrel, if it even grouped at 3"-4" I would be happy, nut the groups open up to sometimes a foot or more

[steelerfan]

There are many things that could be occurring, but let's try to narrow them down. Something is happening that is apparently uniform across three different scopes: could be the ammo, could be you, could be the scope, could be the rifle.

I'm gonna focus on the scopes and the way they are mounted because that was an issue that affected me.

Are you mounting a scope to a picatinny rail that was mounted on the rifle? If the point where you mount the scope to the receiver is loose, that could explain why the three different scopes don't work. All you have to do is dog those down and use some blue lock-tite while you're at it.

It also may have to do with the inch-pounds in tightening the rings to the rifle and the scope to the rings - they are usually two different recommended levels of "tightness". If you're uniformly "one grunt tight" on all your mounts, that may be too loose. If you're "two grunts tight", that may be too severe. Check to see if your scope rings come with recommended mounting instructions and the "inch-pounds" required. That's what a FAT Wrench is for - mounts everything uniformly to spec..

Maybe a picture of the rifle and scope mount would help so others could see what sometimes isn't obvious (like a scope getting mounted backwards - just kidding!).

Weaver style rings, scope definitely not mounted backward, lol. Ring screws were checked for proper tightening

[Bang]

I know this would be the last thing I would want to get into were it mine, but I think you have proven the rifle is not right. I'd call Savage customer service and make arrangements to send it to them for a correction.

To check for loose scope, set it up on sand bags aimed at a target, and carefully squeeze the trigger and DRY FIRE it. If there is something loose in the scope you will see the reticle jump. If no jumping around occurs during several dry-fires, the scope is probably OK.

What do the fired cases look like? Do they remain essentially SAAMI dimensions? What do the bullet holes in the target look like? Are they equal all around? If the bullets are yawing, the trace on the impact will show one heavier thicker wider black portion than the opposite side of the hole.

One shot should not heat up anything sufficient to affect a second shot. Something else is going on. If the first shot is always a perfect zero or nearly so and the following shots always open up, and it happens to five people known to be good shots, you need Savage to replace that thing. It's occupied by a demon.

[gghbi]

Is the action tight in the stock? Is there any pattern at all to the 'groups' ?
Do you know anybody with a similar rifle (Savage short action) that you could swap stocks with? Might be interesting.
If you separate the action from the stock are there any marks on either one that look odd?
Let us know, thanks.

[bamboomaster]

I know this would be the last thing I would want to get into were it mine, but I think you have proven the rifle is not right. I'd call Savage customer service and make arrangements to send it to them for a correction.

To check for loose scope, set it up on sand bags aimed at a target, and carefully squeeze the trigger and DRY FIRE it. If there is something loose in the scope you will see the reticle jump. If no jumping around occurs during several dry-fires, the scope is probably OK.

What do the fired cases look like? Do they remain essentially SAAMI dimensions? What do the bullet holes in the target look like? Are they equal all around? If the bullets are yawing, the trace on the impact will show one heavier thicker wider black portion than the opposite side of the hole.

One shot should not heat up anything sufficient to affect a second shot. Something else is going on. If the first shot is always a perfect zero or nearly so and the following shots always open up, and it happens to five people known to be good shots, you need Savage to replace that thing. It's occupied by a demon.

That's probably closer to the truth - unless his ammo looks like this (just trying to eliminate alternatives and still maintain a sense of humor - I would be super P-O'd if this occurred to me at the range - every freakin' year):

Attachment 96143Bullet Bases.jpg

Were you shooting newly manufactured ammo? Your reloads? Stuff you picked up for $5 a box of 20 at a flea market or $80 a box at an antique store? If the powder weight isn't uniform or the base of the bullets PERFECT, either could be a problem.

Oddly, bent tips on the noses of bullets don't affect accuracy anywhere near as much as mutilated bases. Probably mostly applies to non-factory ammo (reloads).

[Gunsnwater]

Is the barrel tight?

[dkf]

Have you had anyone else shoot it? Are the bullets going into the target leaving a nice clean round hole or are the holes more oval or bullet shaped? I have a Rem700 in 30-06 with a thin lightweight barrel. At 100yds I have gotten it hotter than probably should several times and it doesn't shift much.(Like 10 shots in a few minutes) If you ruled the out the glass and mounts I'd say it is barrel related. Whether the barrel bore is just shit or it is a really bad loose to the receiver or issues with the lug. If the stock is rubbing the barrel during the shot a little it still shouldn't throw shots off 12"+ at 100.

I looked on the Savage website and I hope I read it wrong, they are saying the warranty is 1 year. If that is true that is a pretty shitty warranty on a firearm.