A favor; need list of open carry confrontations

**ungawa** · May 8th, 2017, 03:28 AM

You didn't really do anything? Modesty is one thing, bullshit is another

I have been sick for a couple years and have not seen Bill for as long. He is doing very well, as is his family, but I would venture a guess you are in closer touch with him than I have been. Hope to catch up with you and the little Lady soon. I'm sure Bill will be around for it. I have no doubt Mike will be in there somewhere. The weird Mike, not the normal one, he's always a question mark.

**archon** · May 9th, 2017, 09:39 AM

Most OC cases at least in the Third Circuit have either ended in undisclosed settlements (which I assuming were of the business insurance "here is the amount we will pay out because it would cost us more to fight....it is enough to pay your lawyer and to take the family on vacation) or ended up with finding the police have qualified immunity. Despite the fact that there is no "gun exception" to the Fourth Amendment the lower courts have been treating it as such.

Basically if you are an OC'er then you should assume that carrying a firearm openly in PA (especially Philly) even if legal is cause for reasonable suspicion and a law enforcement encounter. That will always not be the case, especially in more rural counties, but if you are illegally stopped don't expect a lawsuit to vindicate your civil rights. At least not here in federal court in the Third Circuit. One might have more luck in PA court because of some solid caselaw from the 90's, but I have no knowledge of any such cases (racing to the federal courthouse is not always the best litigation option).

**bigdawgbeav** · May 9th, 2017, 09:53 AM

Is this strictly limited to PA? There are probably thousands of incidents posted on YouTube in regards to OC.

**knight0334** · May 9th, 2017, 10:53 AM

Originally Posted by bigdawgbeav

Is this strictly limited to PA? There are probably thousands of incidents posted on YouTube in regards to OC.

It would be safe to assume it should be limited to PA.

Gunlawyer001 is a PA based lawyer.

**Statkowski** · May 9th, 2017, 12:00 PM

Originally Posted by knight0334

It would be safe to assume it should be limited to PA.

Gunlawyer001 is a PA based lawyer.

And this is a PA forum.

**GunLawyer001** · May 9th, 2017, 05:26 PM

Originally Posted by bigdawgbeav

Is this strictly limited to PA? There are probably thousands of incidents posted on YouTube in regards to OC.

My specific interest is focused on PA law and PA incidents, but as a conversational topic it's interesting to hear of other states.

And yes, I've been unable to find any PA convictions for open carry, in the absence of overt verbal threats or pointing guns at people's faces. In every instance I know of for the last 20 years, police called because someone was scared by the man with the gun ended up either having a polite conversation, getting into a pointless argument that turned into nothing, or rarely trying to punish the carrier by getting the LTCF revoked or by prosecuting for "reckless endangerment" or "disorderly conduct". NONE of the prosecutions succeeded. By way of contrast, we know of at least 2 successful lawsuits brought by the citizens against the police and city.

Licensed or unlicensed open carry is generally legal in every county except Philadelphia, where it's still legal with a PA LTCF. Some backward cops and prosecutors don't like it, but that's the legal reality, and they are taking the same side as Bull Connor in trying to suppress civil rights by using the police and the courts as weapons against law-abiding citizens.

Back in 1956, the city of Montgomery, Alabama, indicted around 80 or 90 civil rights leaders for promoting a boycott of the buses that relegated blacks to 2nd-class status; they were criminally charged for urging blacks to avoid using a system that discriminated against them. That was a misuse of the system designed to keep us safe and within the laws, just as it's an abuse by gun-hating folks in the LE and DA community to criminally charge people for doing what the law allows. It's the same mindset that used to get gays lined up and arrested for being gay, or black kids lynched for looking at white women. They believe that they know what's best for keeping people safe, and they abuse the law to achieve their goals.

The UFA micro-manages the purchase, possession, and carry of firearms, and it's not up to individual cops or DA's to create local rules, just like it would be unlawful for a county or town to add additional regulations on aircraft that are controlled by the FAA.

**Sgt.K** · May 10th, 2017, 10:14 AM

Originally Posted by GunLawyer001

The UFA micro-manages the purchase, possession, and carry of firearms, and it's not up to individual cops or DA's to create local rules, just like it would be unlawful for a county or town to add additional regulations on aircraft that are controlled by the FAA.

I'm probably going to use this. Possibly a lot...