Buying firearms in PA as a weekend/summer resident of PA

[sorvanetzsorv]

First of all, I want to mention that I am not a lawyer, and nothing I state below should be interpreted as legal advice. The only purpose of this posting is to share some results of my research and solicit comments. This is a somewhat lengthy posting. My questions (and frustrations) are stated at the end of this posting.

There seems to be a growing number of people who have vacation homes in eastern PA where they spend their weekends/summers, but who work and spend most of their time in their homes in NY or NJ. When these people are in PA, they make their PA residences their homes, thus becoming residents of PA when they are there. At the same time, it is impractical for these people to change their driver’s licenses, voter registrations, etc. to PA.

For the purposes of firearms purchases, this kind of dual state residency is recognized in the federal law - see the Code of Federal Regulations, Title 27, §478.11:

https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-id....0.1.2.3.2.1.1

I copy the relevant paragraphs below:
"...
State of residence. The State in which an individual resides. An individual resides in a State if he or she is present in a State with the intention of making a home in that State.
...
Example 2. A maintains a home in State X and a home in State Y. A resides in State X except for weekends or the summer months of the year and in State Y for the weekends or the summer months of the year. During the time that A actually resides in State X, A is a resident of State X, and during the time that A actually resides in State Y, A is a resident of State Y.
..."

This is also stated in Federal Firearms Regulations Reference Guide - 2014 Edition (ATF P 5300.4), Questions and Answers, B11 (Page 198):

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/gu...on-atf-p-53004

This federal recognition of dual state residency for the purposes of firearms purchases is the reason for the presence of Box 18.b in addition to Box 18.a on Form 4473. I copy below instructions for Box 18.b of ATF Form 4473 (5300.9) Revised October 2016 (Page 5 of the form):

“Question 18.b. Supplemental Documentation: Licensees may accept a combination of valid government-issued documents to satisfy the identification document requirements of the law. The required valid government-issued photo identification document bearing the name, photograph, and date of birth of transferee/buyer may be supplemented by another valid, government-issued document showing the transferee’s/buyer’s residence address. This supplemental documentation should be recorded in question 18.b., with the issuing authority and type of identification presented. For example, if the transferee/buyer has two States of residence and is trying to buy a handgun in State X, he may provide a driver’s license (showing his name, date of birth, and photograph) issued by State Y and another government issued document (such as a tax document) from State X showing his residence address.”

ATF has confirmed in email correspondence that a real estate tax bill issued by a PA municipality and showing the name and PA address of a summer/weekend resident of PA can be recorded in 18.b as supplemental documentation in addition to a NY or NJ issued driver’s license recorded in 18.a.

As far as PA law is concerned, I cannot find anything that could potentially create any issues for summer/weekend residents of PA buying firearms in PA as PA residents. More specifically, as far as the acts of law are concerned, there seems to be nothing in PA Title 18, Chapter 61 – see:

http://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/...&div=0&chpt=61

As far as PA rules and regulations are concerned, there seems to be nothing to present any hurdles either in PA Code Title 37, Chapter 33 – see:

http://www.pacode.com/secure/data/03...chap33toc.html

Moreover, these rules seem to allow even more flexibility as far as supplemental address documentation is concerned than the federal rules - §33.102 states:

“To be acceptable, a government-issued photo identification card shall contain the holder’s name, date of birth and signature. If it does not contain the holder’s current address, another document containing that address such as a current utility bill, residential lease agreement, mortgage, and the like, shall be presented.”

What is presented above seems to clearly show that weekend/summer residents of PA with driver’s licenses issued by NY or NJ can legally purchase firearms in PA as PA residents. This means that they can purchase in PA even those firearms that are legal in PA and illegal in NY or NJ (such as AR pistols). Obviously, such firearms must stay in PA residencies. Bringing such firearms to NY or NJ would result in committing felony.

Additionally, the NFA branch of ATF has confirmed in email correspondence that there are no additional hurdles associated with registering NFA items by weekend/summer residents. This means that weekend/summer residents of PA can legally purchase (and register) NFA items (such as suppressors) in PA as PA residents. Obviously, such NFA items must stay in PA residencies. Bringing such NFA items to NY or NJ would result in committing felony.

Are there any problems with the analysis presented above?

I have not been able to find a single coherent argument invalidating the above statements. Nonetheless, in all my contacts with PA FFLs (including Class III), I was getting the same response: if the address on the driver’s license is in NY or NJ, then the only firearms they are willing to sell are long guns that are legal in NY or NJ. In other words, these FFLs seem to be unfamiliar with dual residency recognized in the law for the purposes of firearms purchase. They insist on treating weekend/summer residents of PA as residents of the states that issue their driver’s licenses. This seems to be clearly incorrect.

I understand that it is an individual decision of every FFL what kind of transactions they are willing to execute. They are perfectly within their right to decide not to deal with weekend/summer residents of PA. It is possible that this decision is rationalized by the consideration that a relatively small number of such firearms buyers would not justify the extra effort associated with learning rarely used provisions of the law.

However, given the growing number of summer/weekend residents of PA and the currently happening slowdown in firearms sales, it seems that at least some FFLs should realize that the extra learning effort is now justified.

Are there any FFLs in eastern PA that are familiar with dual state residency and treat weekend/summer residents of PA in the same way as all the other PA residents?

[Manxdriver]

I dunno. How about homeless folks? Can the government keep them from buying ? They reside in the field/under the bridge/behind Circuit City in a refrigerator box, but it doesn't list that on their ID.

[john9001]

" it seems to" is not a legal defense.

[free]

Why not just buy in NY, NJ, MD, MA, or whatever other shit hole you live in most of the time?

If it is because you find their gun laws unfavourable, maybe you should reconsider living in such shit holes most of the time.

[KCJones]

If I was an FFL in PA, I wouldn't touch it.

[HKusp 45]

If I was an FFL in PA, I wouldn't touch it.

And I'm betting no smart one will

[fallenleader]

Why not just buy in NY, NJ, MD, MA, or whatever other shit hole you live in most of the time?

If it is because you find their gun laws unfavourable, maybe you should reconsider living in such shit holes most of the time.

+1 but i'd say that "maybe you should consider fixing the shit holes you hail from" being that if they find the laws unacceptable, show it in the polls, find like minded residents and take it to their reps.
i moved out of NJ but it wasn't for guns. i had my rifle permit in NJ @ 18yrs of age.

my other advise, lawyer up. this will be decided by them and they will represent you in your court case.
also, many change their license to here to take advantage of auto insurance discounts, which is why they crack down on that multi-state stuff now (they will ask where your vehicle normally is)
and the guns that can't be brought "home" will be stolen over the weekend as many of the homes are in communities filled with city types, which are often among the highest crime and advertise the highest security like guards, patrols and gates. (looking at you PCP, Penn Estates) they're also the cheapest "vacation homes"

[tl_3237]

<snip>...

I understand that it is an individual decision of every FFL what kind of transactions they are willing to execute. They are perfectly within their right to decide not to deal with weekend/summer residents of PA. It is possible that this decision is rationalized by the consideration that a relatively small number of such firearms buyers would not justify the extra effort associated with learning rarely used provisions of the law.

<snip>

OP - your first post was absolutely correct - assuming you maintain a "home" for yourself in Pa then, for the narrow purposes of the FEDERAL firearms laws (18 USC Ch 44), you are indeed considered as a Pa resident while you are in residence there. Additionally there is no Pa impediment for your purchase regardless of your legal out-of-state residency.

That said, your closing statement above aptly states the conundrum in that few FFLs are willing to risk engaging in such a transaction for fear of later disapproval of the transaction by his licensing authorities. Assuming you are intent on purchasing a handgun then you are pretty much forced into using an FFL under Pa law (18 Pa CS 6111(c)). FWIW private party sale of longarms between Pa residents while in Pa are not prohibited by either Federal or state law.

[Parrisk]

My understanding of the law and dealing with it while moving around as a military member.

You can only be a LEGAL resident of one state.. usually the state that issued your drivers license..
also why you cannot legally have more than one valid drivers license

I would guess if you did 6 month here and 6 month there you could pick your favored state.. but most lawyers would tell you that the state where you have more interests in (primary residence, live the majority of time) is where you should register.. ie you own a seasonal cottage in PA, but own a primary residence and work in NY you should register in NY.

If you walk into a PA FFL and drop an out of state (NJ or NY or MA) Drivers License as ID they would be a damn fool to sell you a firearm based on your argument.

IANAL either

[Statkowski]

Pennsylvania FFLs will only sell firearms (including the handing over) to Pennsylvania residents.

Yes, federal law states one may maintain more than one residence, including one in another state, but...

Title 4, Pa. Code defines a "resident" as the following:

§ 95.2. Residence requirements. (a) Resident defined. A resident is a person who resides, and who has manifested the intent to continue to reside in this Commonwealth or a former resident of this Commonwealth who meets the criteria in paragraph (2)(i) or (ii).
(1) Evidence of intent to continue to reside in this Commonwealth includes the following:
(i) Rent, lease or purchase of a property which the applicant has made a primary residence in this Commonwealth.
(ii) Payment of State and local taxes.
(iii) Registration of personal property, such as bank accounts, stocks, and bonds and automobiles within this Commonwealth.
(iv) Possession of a current Pennsylvania driver’s license.
(v) Current registration to vote in this Commonwealth.
(2) Former residents of this Commonwealth who relocated out-of-State for academic or employment purposes, shall establish Pennsylvania residency within 6 months of beginning employment in the classified service and shall have done one of the following:
(i) Graduated from a public, private or nonpublic secondary school in this Commonwealth within 5 years of applying for a position in the classified service.
(ii) Attended a public, private or nonpublic school in this Commonwealth at least 80% of the time while enrolled in grades one through twelve and attended the school within 5 years of applying for a position in the classified service.

Title 22, Pa. Code does similar:

§ 35.29b. Commonwealth residency. (a) Domicile is the place where one intends to and does, in fact, permanently reside. In order to establish Commonwealth residency, the following presumptions shall be considered along with documentary evidence or statements from disinterested persons, or both:
(1) Continuous residence in this Commonwealth for a period of 12 months prior to registration as a student. A student may rebut this presumption by convincing evidence.
(2) A noncitizen shall have taken formal action toward becoming a citizen or shall have been admitted to the United States on an Immigrant Visa.
(3) A minor, under the age of 18, shall be presumed to have the domicile of parents or guardian. A minor may prove emancipation and independent domicile through convincing evidence.
(4) A United States government employe or a member of the armed forces who was domiciled in this Commonwealth immediately preceding entry into government service, and who continuously maintained legal residence in this Commonwealth, shall be presumed to have domicile. Others in government service may, by convincing evidence, establish domicile.
(b) Domicile may not be established for a student receiving a scholarship or grant dependent upon domicile from another state.
(c) Examples of factors which may provide convincing evidence include the following:
(1) Lease or purchase of a permanent independent residence.
(2) Payment of appropriate State and local taxes. Special attention shall be given to payment of Commonwealth taxes on income earned during periods of temporary absence from this Commonwealth.
(3) Transfer of bank accounts, stock, automobile and other registered property to this Commonwealth.
(4) Pennsylvania driver’s license.
(5) Agreement for permanent full-time employment in this Commonwealth.
(6) Membership in Commonwealth social, civic, political, athletic and religious organizations.
(7) Registration to vote in this Commonwealth.
(8) Statement of intention to reside indefinitely in this Commonwealth.
(9) Statement from the parents or guardian of a minor setting forth facts to establish the financial independence and separate residence of the minor.
(d) Cases shall be decided on the basis of facts submitted, with qualitative rather than quantitative emphasis. No given number of factors may be required for domicile, since the determination in each case is one of the subjective intention of the student to reside indefinitely in this Commonwealth.
(e) A student may challenge his residency classification by filing a written petition with the officer or committee designated to consider such challenges at the college.
(f) If the student is not satisfied with the decision made by the officer or committee in response to the challenge, the student may take a written appeal to the office of the Secretary of Education, 333 Market Street, Harrisburg, Pennsylvania 17126-0333. The decision of the Secretary on the challenge is final.

Bottom line, although one might try to apply federal opinions, one would probably need some sort of determination from a Pennsylvania court of record that an out-of-stater with a Pennsylvania vacation home or hunting camp meets the definition of being a Pennsylvania resident.

States do not quibble about the technical difference between "domicile" and "residence." As far as states are concerned, they are one and the same.