P320, USP, or Ruger American

[giant_g2]

I'm looking at the full size versions of the following guns in 45 and would appreciate the feedback of anybody who has experience with them. Owners of other chamberings welcome to comment too. I've read reviews and googled them, but would appreciate real user feedback. It also seems that the ranges near me do not rent these in 45.

HK USP perferably with the LEM trigger
Sig P320
Ruger American Pistol

And maybe, Walther PPQ

[Streetglider08]

I haven't shot any of these in 45 but I have shot all but the ppq in 9mm. I don't think you can go wrong with any, except in my opinion the ruger American pistols have the grittiest trigger and longest reset I have ever felt. I'm a fan of ruger and have owned a few, but in my opinion the trigger on the ruger American is awful.

I didn't think the trigger was all that great on the usp that I shot but it may not have been the LEM trigger, but I do like the ergos and the fact that it's a proven hk design.

I think the sig 320 is a great all around gun, good trigger and good ergos. I'll probably end up with a 320 X5 when they become available.

This is just my 2 cents.

[Jhaydeno]

I've shot the USP in 9mm and I own a p320 full size in 9. They are both a fantastic value and great shooting guns (in 9mm). I really like the low bore axis of the sky; it comes back on target very quickly. I can't imagine anyone would be unhappy with either.

[giant_g2]

Thanks for the input! I did dry fire them all today and I did feel like the Ruger's trigger was not as nice as the P320. I also don't like the USP trigger except in SA mode, which is ok since they make a model with a manual safety. I'm leaning towards the P320, but also want to look into the Ruger more. It seems like it'll be tough to fine a rental of the P320 in 45.

[Jhaydeno]

The P320 in .45 was late to market, and some Sig fans were upset because the original intent was one interchangeable platform for all calibers, but that ended up not being the case. The first release can only handle 9, .40, and .357sig, and they had to develop a new platform for .45.

[TooBigToFit]

Thanks for the input! I did dry fire them all today and I did feel like the Ruger's trigger was not as nice as the P320. I also don't like the USP trigger except in SA mode, which is ok since they make a model with a manual safety. I'm leaning towards the P320, but also want to look into the Ruger more. It seems like it'll be tough to fine a rental of the P320 in 45.

If you like the USP in SA, then LEM is basically shooting in SA 100% of the time, except your first shot in a string will have a long light takeup (but maintains the same weight and feel break of all the other shots). Also consider the Match trigger, standard on the USP Expert and Elite, and parts of which are found in the USP Tactical. It's got a lighter smoother DA, crisper break, and an adjustable overtravel stop for a shorter reset. There's also the option of LEM/Match Hybrid, which adds some of the Match trigger parts to the LEM trigger for a cleaner break and shorter reset.

If you want to add these parts to a standard USP, it's fairly easy to do (YouTube is a big help). The biggest pain on any HK trigger is the trigger return spring, for which a special pair of pliers definitely helps (but it's still not fun). Converting a standard V1 USP to safety only (or decock only) is also ridiculously easy. You just need a V9 detent plate (V3 if you want decock only). You basically take off the slide, push a pin over just a smidge, swap the plates out, push the pin back, and reassemble. Literally a 30 second job.

[giant_g2]

Yeah, I know the 45 isn't interchangeable with the others. I'm not too concerned about that since the conversion kits are pretty expensive. I would guess that a used P320 will be close to the price of a kit.

That's a lot of good info on the USP. I tried the LEM trigger, but I thought it was DAO? I'll look around for somewhere with an LEM/match trigger, but it seems like that will be tough to find.

[TooBigToFit]

Yeah, I know the 45 isn't interchangeable with the others. I'm not too concerned about that since the conversion kits are pretty expensive. I would guess that a used P320 will be close to the price of a kit.

That's a lot of good info on the USP. I tried the LEM trigger, but I thought it was DAO? I'll look around for somewhere with an LEM/match trigger, but it seems like that will be tough to find.

It's kind of DAO in appearance only. Yes, pulling the trigger moves the hammer, and the hammer stays forward when the trigger is forward, but the reality is, the hammer spring is precocked by the slide moving back, and once you stage the takeup to the wall, it feels like a single action trigger break. The biggest evidence of this is dry firing the trigger, and pulling it again without cycling the slide. You'll feel the true, heavy and long double action if you don't cycle the slide.

The idea behind LEM is to combine the benefits of striker fired and the benefits of hammer fired. You get the consistent trigger pull of a striker, the crisp light break of a single action hammer, and the safety (long pull and ability to thumb the hammer while holstering) and second strike capability of a double action hammer.

As far as the LEM/Match hybrid goes, I don't think it comes on a factory model. I forgot the exact parts, but I believe you take the LEM USP, and add in the Match firing pin block spring, nickel plated sear spring, trigger return spring, and the trigger itself. Cheapest place to order HK parts is by calling them. Most expensive I've found was HKparts.net, by far (sometimes 2-3x the cost of calling HK), but you so get the convenience of click and buy.

[philadelphia patriot]

Personally.....I'd go Sig P320, but that's because I love my Sig P320 Carry in 9mm.

[giant_g2]

Thanks again. I'll have to get to the range and rent some.