why is more expensive better.

[Pilot321]

I have some expensive firearms, and I have some not so expensive firearms, and they ALL work for me. The one I carry the most cost me $200, the other one I carry cost me $300.

[fallenleader]

Actually this post was relevant in this thread. If you shoot one you may be enthusiastic about it as well but fine wont post about it any more

im just happy to see you post without using -that- word

i've been handed those $1 cans of spray paint, or colored water is what they really are. useless for anything really, it either soaks in or runs off.
my most expensive firearms will be the core15 scout and my mossberg 500. both sub $500.
all of my tools are off brand, usually i will cross check mechanical parts, i have a husq'y backpack blower but everything else is mcculoch or poulan. for instance, the difference between my snow blower and it's premium sister is the engine size Vs it's width. the name brand uses a few CC larger engine at that width, one width down and they use the same engine minus the carburator and colored body panels.
my master mechanic power drill has taken more abuse than i hope to ever put my ridgid paddle mixer through, but the mixer has substantially more torque and ability to dissipate heat. my snapon and mac tools from when i did mechanical all have worked as well for as long as my no name chinese junk ones, ratchets all wore about the same but the mac's i have are cam driven, something you couldnt get in generic at the time.

fit and finish DOES substantially vary from brand to brand.

[FJW]

I think your upper limit is low, I'd double it, but your basic premise is correct. There are some very reliable, not too fancy pistols that will cost $1000 or more. And you not getting anything really special.

$300 bottom seems about right, with the Bersa's, police trade-in's, and other used common models.

All I ask is that a handgun be dead-nuts reliable (as in milspec)... be accurate enough to drill a fist sized group at 25 yards with fixed sights without a bench...be virtually hiccup free....and be tough enough to digest the hotter loads of the caliber its chambered for. Everything else is a linear path to snobbery as far as I'm concerned. I dont need a fancy finish or hardwood grips or brass trigger and hammer.

So for that arena I offer up my $275 9mm Bulgarian Arcus 94. It can do all that and is full milspec. Its not a fashion show to me. This gun is not refined at all....yet is probably the toughest and most reliable Browning Hi-Power clone available. It's SAO just like the real ones. Whether or not this should add or detract from the value is a matter of opinion.

I've come very close to debuting this gun for occasional CC use, although I'm not quite comfortable with Condition 1 yet.

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[FJW]

I have some expensive firearms, and I have some not so expensive firearms, and they ALL work for me. The one I carry the most cost me $200, the other one I carry cost me $300.

That's the ticket. I'm very unlikely to spend upwards of 4 figures or so unless we're talking about some beautiful hunting rifle with custom wood and elegant finish and a smooooothe action. I might do it then....but then again, that would still be my own inner snob coming out. An old Mauser or Enfield with a scratched up stock makes a FINE hunting rifle. I'm not into just collecting guns for their status and appaearance. I want to use them to shoot things. And a gun which made for regular shooting just doesnt need to be a show-stopper. I dont really want a gun for status. I have appreciation for fine workmanship for its own sake at times.. I wouldnt mind having a Jaguar in the garage if I had the wherewithal to care for it....but I'd be more likely to drive an FJ Cruiser any day of the week. Or a Dodge RAM. Or a Pathfinder. Even if I could afford a Jag. I'd want said vehicles to be in good condition, of course, and I'd probably really enjoy driving them more than a Jag anyway. I'm really only so impressed by status symbols like that which need constant polishing. Just dont care that much. Ho hum, y'know?

[bortle]

I was at the range one time and the guy next to me was bragging up his Weatherby magnum with a big ass scope. I had a Swede mauser with a peep sight. Then we looked at the targets, mine was a 1 1/2" group. His was all over the paper. His scope probably cost more than my rifle. He's shooting handloads, I'm shooting $10 a box hotshots. More money doesn't always equal better.

[CMP703006]

I have only one fancy pistol and that is a Ruger Vaquero. The Vaquero was part of a pair that I split with my best friend who I've known since we were in middle school. It has engravings and nice grips but it isn't a safe queen, I've put a few hundred rounds through it and carried it for two hunting seasons.

The most expensive pistol I own is an FNX-45 Tactical, I went back and forth for months looking at every different kind of pistol to find one that could meet my requirements. I wanted a threaded barrel, suppressor height night sights and an RMR cut. Out of all the pistols I looked at it was narrowed down to a modified Glock MOS, the FNX or a special STI 2011. When I priced them out the modified Glock was within 50 bucks of the FNX while the STI was 3 Grand so I went with the FNX. With the exception of the first round with it hasn't hiccuped once in several hundred rounds. For me in order to get the features I wanted I had to pay the extra money. The stock FNX is in the same ballpark as the smith and Glock. Is it any better, haven't shot them enough to know but it works well enough for me and does what I need it to.

The most glaring example of the question "is expensive better?" that I can think of is the recent proliferation of the budgetary hunting rifles such as the Remington 783, Ruger American, Winchester XBR, & Stevens 200. These rifles use plastic stocks inexpensive manufacturing and basic fit and finish some of which are sold as combos with inexpensive scopes. These are now taking the place of the Remington 700, Ruger 77, Winchester Model 70 & Savage 110 which are all more expensive with wood or fiberglass stocks and a higher quality fit and finish.

Are the more expensive guns better? It depends on the application and the amount of usage, For the average couple rounds a year in deer season guy the budget rifles work well enough and you don't have to worry about them getting beat up. For the amount that I shoot and the kind of shooting I do they simply don't work. So for my application in long range shooting more expensive is better.

[FJW]

I think Savage makes some of the best hunting rifles for the money. The Savage 11 Hog-Hunter model in 308 and converted to take the extended mags would suit me fine over any of the upscale brands. I also like the CZ550 with the Mannlicher stock. Both have iron sights too, which are a must have for me.

[RockIsland]

So for that arena I offer up my $275 9mm Bulgarian Arcus 94. It can do all that and is full milspec. Its not a fashion show to me. This gun is not refined at all....yet is probably the toughest and most reliable Browning Hi-Power clone available. It's SAO just like the real ones. Whether or not this should add or detract from the value is a matter of opinion.

I've come very close to debuting this gun for occasional CC use, although I'm not quite comfortable with Condition 1 yet.

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The only Arcusises I ever saw had that retarded downward beavertail that digs into the web of your hand.

I might like one that wasn't sporting that feature.




I have a Kareen Hi Power. It's a very well made pistol that was rode hard and put away wet.

It's in better shape than most of the ones I've seen. Lots of bluing wear but no rust or pitting.

Its not super accurate but it's very reliable.

I think Hi Powers may be the reason for Isreali carry.

[FJW]

The only Arcusises I ever saw had that retarded downward beavertail that digs into the web of your hand.

I might like one that wasn't sporting that feature.




I have a Kareen Hi Power. It's a very well made pistol that was rode hard and put away wet.

It's in better shape than most of the ones I've seen. Lots of bluing wear but no rust or pitting.

Its not super accurate but it's very reliable.

I think Hi Powers may be the reason for Isreali carry.

Ive heard that the Kareens are actually made by Arcus, with some minor differences. There was an article or thread about that somewhere, and they photographically showed you the tiny details. Those FEG PA63 "Makarovs" are like that too. Some agencies in other countried had the same pistol 98% but with different name, different finish, different markibgs and a few minor differences around the edges.

Anyway, yeah... I never would have bought my Arcus if it had that beavertail. I almost went for the Arcus 98 so I could have DA/SA.... but that model doesnt take Hi-Power mags... so I went with the 94. It really IS a Hi-Power, with some minor details reworked. They say the slides are not interchangeable. Untrue! They work fine but are about 1/4" different in length so they look dumb when crossfitting. I even used the instructions for removing the magazine safety from a real Hi-Power to remove the one from my Arcus. The mechanism was verbatim. The trigger and mag release are much smoother now too. A mag will drop right out like a bomb when you hit the button.

[RockIsland]

Ive heard that the Kareens are actually made by Arcus, with some minor differences. There was an article or thread about that somewhere, and they photographically showed you the tiny details. Those FEG PA63 "Makarovs" are like that too. Some agencies in other countried had the same pistol 98% but with different name, different finish, different markibgs and a few minor differences around the edges.

Anyway, yeah... I never would have bought my Arcus if it had that beavertail. I almost went for the Arcus 98 so I could have DA/SA.... but that model doesnt take Hi-Power mags... so I went with the 94. It really IS a Hi-Power, with some minor details reworked. They say the slides are not interchangeable. Untrue! They work fine but are about 1/4" different in length so they look dumb when crossfitting. I even used the instructions for removing the magazine safety from a real Hi-Power to remove the one from my Arcus. The mechanism was verbatim. The trigger and mag release are much smoother now too. A mag will drop right out like a bomb when you hit the button.

From what I've found out, the Kareens were made in a little Mom & Pop shop in Israel using FN, FEG and home made parts.

I don't know if they are interchangeable with all HP's but it does work with HP mags.