A group of friends with Kel Tecs

[mpan72]

In most circumstances, probably won't. But as STBear said, it meets a need and in my opinion, does so well. With a smaller caliber, or even larger the CNS box works great for fast results with good ammo, and especially the ocular cranial cavity hits put the lights out when they don't deflect, or penetrate flesh, zoom around the skull's exterior and either come to rest there, or exit back out the skin until they eventually run outta steam.

I've known a few people shot in the head/neck that survived with those ".25/.32 calibers" up to .45 ACP. It's so odd that some people only get minor or superficial wounds when 99% of the time another would be worm food. Why does the threat still come when you shoot him 3-4 times+ with a 5.56mm until he expires? That's why you should train until the threat is stopped so if God forbid you ever have to shoot anyone you don't freeze if/when and have a mortally wounded aggressor/enemy combatant kill you on their way out, because Hollywood and arm chair commandos make it sound like that .45 will lift em off their feet with one shot! Shoot the best you can, and fire until the threat is stopped, thus no longer a threat. Shoot and MOVE, know the difference between cover and concealment, never stop fighting as long as you can move, go primal and use teeth even. Most people lack good hand to hand skills and don't how to use a knife; its messier but works well. Fighting for your life, is exactly what you are doing any time you engage in lethal force towards your fellow man, train for it like it matters mentally and physically.

No sane person wants to take another life, but sometimes you must; and if you do, you'd best know how to do it quickly so you go home to your family and other innocent people to their families. Doesn't matter if you are a civilian, LE, or Military. The difference is, the latter culture has a better mindset and experience to boot then Joe Blow off the street. With the abundance of good training schools out there, there is no good excuse to not get proper education/training beyond static targets. Especially if you choose to carry a firearm and you've never served in another capacity to establish that firm foundation.

Back to the topic.....Kel Tec Handguns: affordable reliability in Jr. Calibers. Hip Hip Hooray for Kel Tec.

A little preachy but mostly valid points. But even with a lot of training shooting someone in the eye is very difficult. Most people, even professionals, are trained to start with chest shots. A hit in the chest is better than a miss in the eye.

[MARINE DIVISION TWO]

Let me tell you about 25acp ! Took one round in the left arm elbow,shattered bone and nerve injury,first surgery was to fix bone fragments,6 months later re-positioning the nerve !I hardly had any bleeding and it was a hollow point ! A gun is better than none but preference for me is a round capable of stopping the adversary ! MDT

[Bang]

Television and movies have a lot to do with stopping power. It is a known and proven concept that people when shot will fall down (if they realize they have been shot) simply because they have been educated to react by falling...thanks to years and years of visuals on the LaLa Land screens. Trained to keep fighting until actually unable, the trained person will stay in the fight until unable to go on.

There seems to be consensus that 80 percent of persons experiencing shot by handgun survive. The word survive is a state that lacks description of other aspects...wheel chair for life, disability of some sort for life, pain for life, numbness and destroyed motor nerves....none of which is enough information to gauge stopping a threat with gunfire within a frame that ensures one's own escape unscathed.

The 80 percent figure suggests (to me) that handgun defense is a crapshoot and if you want to survive you need to load the dice...with energy expended in the target. One can increase odds (if the goal is to kill) with trauma center mass, hopefully that will make the target stop moving for a second or two, giving opportunity to aim for the head.

[Bang]

To the battering of the trigger finger by a KelTec mouse gun. The gun weighs about 7 ounces unloaded. There is little surface to transfer recoil into the palm or hand web, and little weight to balance action/reaction as it exists in recoil. Exactly what is happening to the trigger finger during recoil is not quite clear in my mind. Ever have an AKM with the usual trigger slap that you make changes to to eliminate the slap. My finger felt like that. I suspect the finger is getting both...trigger slap and guard impact.

[PAMedic=F|A=]

Television and movies have a lot to do with stopping power. It is a known and proven concept that people when shot will fall down (if they realize they have been shot) simply because they have been educated to react by falling...thanks to years and years of visuals on the LaLa Land screens. Trained to keep fighting until actually unable, the trained person will stay in the fight until unable to go on.

There seems to be consensus that 80 percent of persons experiencing shot by handgun survive. The word survive is a state that lacks description of other aspects...wheel chair for life, disability of some sort for life, pain for life, numbness and destroyed motor nerves....none of which is enough information to gauge stopping a threat with gunfire within a frame that ensures one's own escape unscathed.

The 80 percent figure suggests (to me) that handgun defense is a crapshoot and if you want to survive you need to load the dice...with energy expended in the target. One can increase odds (if the goal is to kill) with trauma center mass, hopefully that will make the target stop moving for a second or two, giving opportunity to aim for the head.

Well said.

[mpan72]

To the battering of the trigger finger by a KelTec mouse gun. The gun weighs about 7 ounces unloaded. There is little surface to transfer recoil into the palm or hand web, and little weight to balance action/reaction as it exists in recoil. Exactly what is happening to the trigger finger during recoil is not quite clear in my mind. Ever have an AKM with the usual trigger slap that you make changes to to eliminate the slap. My finger felt like that. I suspect the finger is getting both...trigger slap and guard impact.

Interesting. Not something I have ever had happen to me. Maybe if Keltec opened the trigger guard area a little it could help.

[Hawk]

It's definitely the upward recoil of the pistol driving the bottom of the trigger guard into the bottom of the trigger finger. It's due to the inability to grasp the small Keltec grip firmly enough with the middle and ring fingers of my huge hands. I don't use a mag extension. It's not really a big deal. I can run through two or maybe three mag's before I start to notice it.

[Bang]

Kind of sounds like the gun would be tending to leave the hand but for the trigger guard acting as a last resort hang on.

[herplover]

I got one just to get.I carry a 380 or a 9mm when CC and if out in the woods i carry a 327 or a 357. Nothing wrong with owning a 32 for occasional range fun.A 32 kills paper as easily as a 45

[Hawk]

Kind of sounds like the gun would be tending to leave the hand but for the trigger guard acting as a last resort hang on.

Part of the issue is that most of the pistol (and it's mass) resides above the hand that's holding it. In addition, because the grip is so small and the trigger pull is pretty long, the second joint of your finger ends up on the trigger after the break.