Transporting from NJ to carry in PA

[twency]

The Superior Court of New Jersey would like you to know: "When dealing with guns, the citizen acts at his peril." — State of N.J. v. Joseph Pelleteri

[Gun]

I live in NJ but have Utah and New Hampshire Non-Resident concealed carry permits which allow me to carry in PA and DE and other states. I wanted to see how I can legally go about crossing into PA from NJ with a firearm with the sole purpose of concealed carry?

How did you acquire a permit from Utah?

[tl_3237]

I believe your highlighting describes the place, not the action.

I interpret that the highlighted refers to reason (purpose) of travel. If the statute wanted to amplify the definition of target range they would have either provided a definition in 2C:39-1 or would have worded clause subsection (b) as "target range, or other authorized place for the purpose of practice ..." - then I could accept your purported explanation.

NJSA 2C:39-6f. Nothing in subsections b., c. and d. of N.J.S.2C:39-5 shall be construed to prevent:

(3)A person transporting any firearm or knife while traveling:

(b)Directly to or from any target range, or other authorized place for the purpose of practice, match, target, trap or skeet shooting exhibitions, provided in all cases that during the course of the travel all firearms are carried in the manner specified in subsection g. of this section and the person has complied with all the provisions and requirements of Title 23 of the Revised Statutes and any amendments thereto and all rules and regulations promulgated thereunder;

Combining the enumerated list introductory clause with the member entry and read in its entirety:

A person transporting any firearm or knife while traveling [d]irectly to or from any target range, or other authorized place for the purpose of practice, match, target, trap or skeet shooting exhibitions, provided in all cases that during the course of the travel all firearms are carried in the manner specified in subsection g. of this section and the person has complied with all the provisions and requirements of Title 23 of the Revised Statutes and any amendments thereto and all rules and regulations promulgated thereunder;

I don't see any other way of applying the phrase "for the purpose" except as an additional condition to the preceding "while travelling".

[archon]

Unless you have a home in both NJ and PA or are making a bona fide trip to a gun range in PA or a gun smith or another enumerated exception under NJ law there is no way to legally transport a pistol into PA for purposes of carrying even if you have a permit that is valid in PA. If you have a NJ FOID card you can transport long guns without meeting one of the enumerated transit exceptions, but that is not true for pistols.

If your pistol is in NJ and unless you are not one of the lucky 1300 people in NJ with a license to carry a handgun the only place where you can lawfully carry a pistol is in your house and curtilage. That is it unless you hit one of the exceptions. Even if you are driving from NJ to PA and have the pistol in a locked container in your trunk separate from the ammo which is also in a locked container, unless you hit one of the exceptions it is illegal. Even if you are in your backyard and step into a municipal right of way while carrying that is a felony (and yes people have been prosecuted for doing just that).

If you live in NJ but find yourself in PA a lot and want to carry the only way you can legally do so is to keep your pistol in PA. That means a friend's house, work (check your employer's rules), a safe deposit box, a legally parked car, or even a storage unit. The only other safe way to transport is to have a domicile in both PA and NJ and transport the gun directly between those two residences in a legal manner once you cross the border into NJ. (Make sure to have proof you have a legal residence in both states...like carry copies of both leases or other similar documents in your car). That is it. There are no "work arounds" or "loopholes". The FOPA does not apply unless you are engaging in multi-state travel. Just crossing the border into another state that is your destination does not seem to bind it as far as the courts are concerned.

If you are a gun owner and are concerned about your rights to possess, carry, and purchase firearms stay far away from NJ. Long guns are not a big deal. Get a FOID and you can transport without worries. But, pistols are a whole something else. Unless you absolutely have to live in NJ for work or another reason stick to PA or DE.

[tl_3237]

Unless you have a home in both NJ and PA or are making a bona fide trip to a gun range in PA or a gun smith or another enumerated exception under NJ law there is no way to legally transport a pistol into PA for purposes of carrying even if you have a permit that is valid in PA. If you have a NJ FOID card you can transport long guns without meeting one of the enumerated transit exceptions, but that is not true for pistols.

If your pistol is in NJ and unless you are not one of the lucky 1300 people in NJ with a license to carry a handgun the only place where you can lawfully carry a pistol is in your house and curtilage. That is it unless you hit one of the exceptions. Even if you are driving from NJ to PA and have the pistol in a locked container in your trunk separate from the ammo which is also in a locked container, unless you hit one of the exceptions it is illegal. Even if you are in your backyard and step into a municipal right of way while carrying that is a felony (and yes people have been prosecuted for doing just that).

If you live in NJ but find yourself in PA a lot and want to carry the only way you can legally do so is to keep your pistol in PA. That means a friend's house, work (check your employer's rules), a safe deposit box, a legally parked car, or even a storage unit. The only other safe way to transport is to have a domicile in both PA and NJ and transport the gun directly between those two residences in a legal manner once you cross the border into NJ. (Make sure to have proof you have a legal residence in both states...like carry copies of both leases or other similar documents in your car). That is it. There are no "work arounds" or "loopholes". The FOPA does not apply unless you are engaging in multi-state travel. Just crossing the border into another state that is your destination does not seem to bind it as far as the courts are concerned.

If you are a gun owner and are concerned about your rights to possess, carry, and purchase firearms stay far away from NJ. Long guns are not a big deal. Get a FOID and you can transport without worries. But, pistols are a whole something else. Unless you absolutely have to live in NJ for work or another reason stick to PA or DE.

Unlike Pa, NJ does not recognize exempt transport between residences except when "MOVING". If one had a business in one state and residence in the other then, in theory, one does garner an NJ exception qualification.

NJSA 2C:39-6e.Nothing in subsections b., c. and d. of N.J.S.2C:39-5 shall be construed to prevent a person keeping or carrying about his place of business, residence, premises or other land owned or possessed by him, any firearm, or from carrying the same, in the manner specified in subsection g. of this section, from any place of purchase to his residence or place of business, between his dwelling and his place of business, between one place of business or residence and another when moving, or between his dwelling or place of business and place where such firearms are repaired, for the purpose of repair. For the purposes of this section, a place of business shall be deemed to be a fixed location.

Also, if that NJ resident leaves the firearm with a Pa resident he must be cognizant of both Pa and Federal law with respect to transfer of possession between residents of differing states. In particular - for temporary lending of handguns 18 Pa CS 6115; for all firearms 18 USC 922(a)(5). If actual 'possession and/or control' has been transferred legal risk could attach.

[archon]

One can move between multiple residences without actually closing up the previous residence. There is almost no case law defining exactly what is a "move", but due to the transient nature of especially the Jersey Shore more then one police officer (including one state trooper) has told me they would consider it a "move" if say you were taking the family down to your shore house for the week and were packed up to do so. Perhaps there is some administrative guidance out there directing NJ police not to prosecute for obvious vacation moves and hence the lack of case law.

The case law about the moving exception usually is applied to situation where someone has already physically relocated and then months later tried to also relocate their firearms or someone who moved but never bothered to take their firearms out of their car. Results seem to vary when these cases arise. The courts seem to have recognized that one can move in multiple trips over an extended period of time as long as items are coming from a storage unit or another residence. Your firearms don't necessarily have to show up when the first moving truck backs into the driveway of your new house.

Either which way, if you are say temporarily relocating to your residence at the shore for a season, package up your handgun as prescribed by NJ law, tuck it away under all your other belongings, and do have a law enforcement encounter, chances are exceedingly low that as long as you shut your mouth and refuse a search that the cop will ever find your pistol. But, just beware that when it comes to guns and NJ the law is pretty murky.

[twency]

But, just beware that when it comes to guns and NJ the law is pretty murky.

"When dealing with guns, the citizen acts at his peril." — State of N.J. v. Joseph Pelleteri

[philadelphia patriot]

Just move out of NJ.

[cham09]

Disregard post.

[tl_3237]

Could be wrong, but...wasn't there a change in PA's reciprocity agreements about 2 years ago that in order to carry on an out of state non-residence license in PA you had to have a carry permit/license from your home state as well? Meaning if he does not have an NJ carry permit his Utah and NH do not allow him to carry here?

You may be thinking about the 2013 Superior Court decision in McKown that requires a Pennsylvania license to carry for all Pennsylvania residents; a PA resident cannot rely on an out-of-state license to carry concealed or in a vehicle. It did not affect licenses carried by non Pennsylvania residents regardless if it was from their home state or otherwise; they are still confined to those licenses that are Pa recognized by reciprocity or statute.

Some reciprocity agreements were renegotiated to only recognize licenses issued to residents of the state of issue.

One must have a license from their home state in order to get a Pennsylvania license to carry.