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February 26th, 2017, 10:34 AM #21
Re: Sign petition for HB167 Disparity of Force
I signed. I have observed or read about more frequent examples of criminals acting in concert against lone or outnumbered victims. The "knockout" game is well documented. Practiced criminals will prey on people at convenience store gas stations. Usually one of the gang distracts the intended victim using some sort of friendly banter, even the offer of a handshake or a request to light or bum a cigarette, will the others encircle and ensnare. A weapon may never have to be produced, sheer numbers overwhelm the victim and a dangerous physical assault can ensue.
More recently, there are any number of incidents captured on video of so called "anti-fascists" attacking conservatives and others. The group tactic is studied and used by them. As one perp aggressively chest or hip bumps or screams in the face of the intended victim, others in the group join in closing distance to within a foot or two. While the victim is preoccupied, trying to back up, or to simply stand still, others circle from behind. Retreat is cutoff and one of the gang, often one from behind strikes a blow of some sort. In these kinds of numbers, even without the use of knives or guns, bare hands, flagpoles, or kicks to the head or body can be implements causing serious harm. The victim may not even be part of a rally. This has happened to passerbys or people just trying to get to work, cross at an intersection etc. Seniors, women and children are all fair game to them.
Even people in automobiles are attacked by mobs. No one in the mob necessarily produces a knife or a firearm, but is there any doubt that a mob is capable of eventually breaching and harming the occupants in a surrounded vehicle? One state is pushing legislation that would allow a motorist to continue to drive through mob and if someone in the mob is accidentally injured, they have no civil recourse against the motorist. The motorist cannot be intending to "run them down". That initiative is another way of trying to help the innocent in a case where disparity in force can become dangerous.
These cases are tricky and navigating actual cases are going to be difficult, but I think laws that recognize disparity of force as a mitigating factor in the use of self-defense make perfect sense. To not recognize disparity of force gives an advantage to the criminal element that attacks using "safety of numbers" in the commission of a crime and then later takes advantage of their "safety in numbers" tactics in court to hamstring a victim trying to establish a legitimate claim of self-defense.Last edited by Wilderness 1864; February 26th, 2017 at 10:37 AM.
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February 26th, 2017, 11:00 AM #22
Re: Sign petition for HB167 Disparity of Force
Exactly. You'll note that the flyer says "Close the Don't Shoot Loophole".
Word has gotten around on the street that people can't shoot if they don't see a gun. So, they approach with weapons concealed, saying things like "don't shoot we just need directions" or "don't shoot we just need to borrow your phone". Once they are close enough (inside 21') they know you don't have time to draw. So, they now launch the attack.Help us restore election integrity in PA. Join PA Voters United
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March 7th, 2017, 07:15 AM #23
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March 7th, 2017, 08:51 AM #24Super Member
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Re: Sign petition for HB167 Disparity of Force
I also just received a smarmy "Thank You" letter from Comrade Wolf's office.
He promises to keep my "thoughts and suggestions in mind" regarding HB 167. He goes on to say that he signed HB 263, which permits semi-auto weapons for hunting. WTF?! What do Disparity of Force and Hunting with Semiauto weapons have in common? He apparently sees both of these as Gun Nuts Issues.
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March 7th, 2017, 12:11 PM #25
Re: Sign petition for HB167 Disparity of Force
Wolf does not say that he will veto it. If he tries to, our response is:
"I guess you don't want women to be able to defend themselves from gang rape." and
"I guess you don't want seniors to be able to defend themselves from street thugs playing knock-out." and
"I guess you don't want the disabled to be able to defend themselves from those who kill for the fun of it."Help us restore election integrity in PA. Join PA Voters United
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March 7th, 2017, 12:15 PM #26
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March 7th, 2017, 12:28 PM #27
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March 7th, 2017, 12:53 PM #28
Re: Sign petition for HB167 Disparity of Force
My understanding is the "Disparity of Force" is a legal defense. Why not also use the SCOTUS, "Disparate Impact". Though it was for civil rights for minority groups. Words can have different meanings and applied to different circumstances.
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March 7th, 2017, 05:53 PM #29
Re: Sign petition for HB167 Disparity of Force
Signed.
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March 7th, 2017, 06:34 PM #30
Re: Sign petition for HB167 Disparity of Force
Help us restore election integrity in PA. Join PA Voters United
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