Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #11
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    Default Re: Delaware reciprocity. This is something people going into Delaware need to be aw

    I just sent the following email. Hopefully they will respond soon.

    Hello, My name is Internet Troll and I am a resident of Pa who travels into Delaware about once a week to go to various restaurants. I have both a Pa and Utah concealed carry permit and conceal carry a firearm under the Utah permit.

    I was reading your website today looking at the page about reciprocity. I saw this statement on the page.



    "As of September 23, 2017 Delaware will no longer honor non-resident Concealed Carry Permits issued by any jurisdiction."

    I wanted to confirm this as it seems out of line with other statements on the page. Will my Utah permit no longer be valid come September? Any information and clarification would be appreciated.

    Thank you,


    Internet Troll

  2. #12
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    Default Re: Delaware reciprocity. This is something people going into Delaware need to be aw

    Right, I believe this is the reasonable way of reading the changes- no recognition of non-resident licenses after September 23. As I state above, however, I do not believe the AG can lawfully make this distinction.

  3. #13
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    Default Re: Delaware reciprocity. This is something people going into Delaware need to be aw

    Quote Originally Posted by internet troll View Post
    Just saw this on the PAFOA Facebook page and figured it would be good for here also. Need the PAFOA think tank on this.

    Is it saying that as of As of "September 23, 2017 Delaware will no longer honor non-resident Concealed Carry Permits issued by any jurisdiction." for everyone? Or just residents of the state of Delaware? Reading further it seems to indicate that you will still be able to drive through Delaware and visit if you do have a Permit from another state that they have reciprocity with. Or does that mean only until September 23rd. I'm on my lunch break and about to get back to work so will not be able to give a good read until later.

    What are your interpretations?

    http://attorneygeneral.delaware.gov/...dweapons.shtml

    Pursuant to Delaware Code Title 11 Section 1441, as of July 11, 2003, Delaware law allows residents of other states who have been issued a concealed deadly weapon license or permit by certain other states to lawfully carry concealed deadly weapons in Delaware if the state is on the below list of reciprocating states and the person is visiting or traveling through Delaware.

    A Delaware resident must have a valid Delaware permit to carry a concealed deadly weapon. A Delaware resident with a non-resident permit from a reciprocating state cannot carry a concealed deadly weapon in Delaware. A Delaware resident is one who carries or is required to have a Delaware driverís license and/or is registered to vote in Delaware. If you have any questions concerning residency or the application process, please contact the Attorney Generalís Office at (302) 577-8600.

    The Attorney General is in the process of securing agreements with the appropriate officials in certain other states which when completed, permit persons who have a concealed deadly weapon license or permit issued by one of those states to lawfully possess a concealed deadly weapon while visiting or traveling through Delaware. Similarly, Delawareans will be able to possess a concealed deadly weapon while visiting or traveling through those states. However, as of today Delaware does not recognize the concealed deadly weapon licenses or permits issued by states other than those listed below, and these states do not recognize Delaware's concealed deadly weapons licenses as valid.

    ALASKA

    ARIZONA

    ARKANSAS

    COLORADO

    FLORIDA

    IDAHO
    (Enhanced Permits Only)

    KENTUCKY

    MAINE

    MICHIGAN

    MISSOURI

    NEW MEXICO

    NORTH CAROLINA

    NORTH DAKOTA
    (Class 1 permits only)

    OHIO

    OKLAHOMA

    SOUTH DAKOTA
    (Enhanced Permits Only)

    TENNESSEE

    TEXAS

    UTAH

    WEST VIRGINIA

    As of September 23, 2017 Delaware will no longer honor non-resident Concealed Carry Permits issued by any jurisdiction.

    Law enforcement officials from other jurisdictions can verify Delaware CCDW permits by contacting the Delaware State Police Headquarters on a 24/7 basis via NLET.AM directed to DEDSP0000 or by calling 302-659-2341

    Persons who have a concealed deadly weapons license or permit issued by one of the states listed above will be able to lawfully possess a concealed deadly weapon while visiting or traveling through Delaware. However, such persons will be subject to and are responsible for knowing and obeying all of Delaware's laws and regulations that apply to the carrying and possession of concealed or openly-carried deadly weapons.
    Click here for information on licensing to carry a concealed deadly weapon in Delaware

    Because of differences in the laws of the various states, it is possible that a person who is lawfully permitted to possess a deadly weapon in another state may be prohibited from doing so pursuant to Delaware law. The following persons are prohibited from possessing deadly weapons or ammunition in Delaware:

    any person previously convicted of any felony

    any person previously convicted of any misdemeanor involving physical injury to another or domestic violence, unless more than 5 years has elapsed from the date of the conviction

    any person previously convicted of any crime involving the unlawful use, possession or sale of any illegal drug

    any person who has not yet reached his or her 25th birthday who has been previously convicted as a juvenile of a crime which, if committed by an adult, would constitute a felony

    any person who is subject to a Protection From Abuse Order issued by a competent court

    any person who has previously been committed to a hospital or mental institution for treatment for a mental disorder

    Possession of a deadly weapon by a person prohibited from doing so is a felony.
    Click here to view Delaware's Possession of a Deadly Weapon by a Prohibited Person statute.

    Delaware law also prohibits the possession of silencers, sawed-off shotguns and machine guns under all circumstances.

    Delawareans who have a Delaware concealed deadly weapons permit will be able to possess a concealed deadly weapon while visiting or traveling through the states listed above, and also in Idaho, Indiana and Vermont. However, Delawareans who possess a concealed deadly weapon in another state will be subject to and are responsible for knowing and obeying all of the laws and regulations in the other state that apply to the carrying and possession of concealed or openly-carried deadly weapons. Because of differences in the laws of the various states, it is possible that a person who is lawfully permitted to possess a deadly weapon pursuant to Delaware law may be prohibited from doing so in another state. Most other states require any person who is carrying a concealed deadly weapon pursuant to a license or permit to also be in possession of the license or permit.

    The Attorney General is in the process of securing agreements with the appropriate officials in certain other states which will, when completed, permit persons who have a concealed deadly weapon license or permit issued by one of those states to lawfully possess a concealed deadly weapon while visiting or traveling through Delaware. Similarly, Delawareans will be able to possess a concealed deadly weapon while visiting or traveling through those states. However, as of today Delaware does not recognize the concealed deadly weapon licenses or permits issued by states other than those listed above, and these states do not recognize Delaware's concealed deadly weapons licenses as valid.

    As agreements are completed with other states this web page will be updated accordingly.

    It's just badly worded. Otherwise, the part that I bolded makes absolutely no sense where it is written.

    Non-residents with reciprocal CCW can carry in DE.

    DE residents cannot carry on other state's non-resident license.

    Calm down.
    "How feeble is the mindset to accept defenselessnes."

  4. #14
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    Default Re: Delaware reciprocity. This is something people going into Delaware need to be aw

    Quote Originally Posted by NOVA1 View Post
    Right, I believe this is the reasonable way of reading the changes- no recognition of non-resident licenses after September 23. As I state above, however, I do not believe the AG can lawfully make this distinction.
    We went through a similar thing here when Kathleen Kane became the AG of PA, changed a few reciprocal agreements to read resident only, not all like DE is going to do, just a few popular ones that PA people not wanting to deal the hoops the local Sheriff put in place.

    Everything avalible to read at the time suggested she only had the power and duty to make new agreements. The only thing in law, IIRC, was that the PA AG would review agreements from time to time to be sure the reciprocated states laws were similar to ours. The fact that she didn't do away with the states altogether and just changed who holding that states license was allowed was questioned, but never got any traction. The agreements she changed, remain in effect today.

  5. #15
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    Default Re: Delaware reciprocity. This is something people going into Delaware need to be aw

    Quote Originally Posted by Sandcut View Post
    It's just badly worded. Otherwise, the part that I bolded makes absolutely no sense where it is written.

    Non-residents with reciprocal CCW can carry in DE.

    DE residents cannot carry on other state's non-resident license.

    Calm down.

    That is nothing new, DE residents have always had to have a DE license in order to conceal carry in DE. (DE is an open carry state with some exceptions). That fact is why this appears to cut out non resident reciprocal licenses as of Sept. 23, 2017.

  6. #16
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    Default Re: Delaware reciprocity. This is something people going into Delaware need to be aw

    Open carry, problem solved.

  7. #17
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    Default Re: Delaware reciprocity. This is something people going into Delaware need to be aw

    I was following what happened in PA (as someone who carried on a resident VA license in PA, i had an interest). The situation in Delaware is a bit different however, as the Delaware statute, 1441(j) expressly requires that:

    " the State of Delaware shall give full faith and credit and shall otherwise honor and give full force and effect to all licenses/permits issued to the citizens of other states where those issuing states also give full faith and credit and otherwise honor the licenses issued by the State of Delaware pursuant to this section and where those licenses/permits are issued by authority pursuant to state law and which afford a reasonably similar degree of protection as is provided by licensure in Delaware."

    Here, the statue requires that "all" the license issues to the citizens of other states be given full faith and credit. This is a simple matter of straightforward statutory construction. As a lawyer, I construct statutes every day, and this is the only way to logically read it.

  8. #18
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    Default Re: Delaware reciprocity. This is something people going into Delaware need to be aw

    Quote Originally Posted by NOVA1 View Post
    I was following what happened in PA (as someone who carried on a resident VA license in PA, i had an interest). The situation in Delaware is a bit different however, as the Delaware statute, 1441(j) expressly requires that:

    " the State of Delaware shall give full faith and credit and shall otherwise honor and give full force and effect to all licenses/permits issued to the citizens of other states where those issuing states also give full faith and credit and otherwise honor the licenses issued by the State of Delaware pursuant to this section and where those licenses/permits are issued by authority pursuant to state law and which afford a reasonably similar degree of protection as is provided by licensure in Delaware."

    Here, the statue requires that "all" the license issues to the citizens of other states be given full faith and credit. This is a simple matter of straightforward statutory construction. As a lawyer, I construct statutes every day, and this is the only way to logically read it.
    The word "all" is missing from our statute but it pretty much reads the same yet Kane was able to alter a few agreements to say residents of the issuing state only. I'm not a lawyer but it seems to me she wasn't able to do so yet the legislature allowed it to happen and even though she's gone those agreements remain as altered by her.

    I don't know why DE is going this route, Kane did it to close what she saw as a loophole for PA residents holding a non resident reciprocal license while not having a PA LTCF. Unfortunately non PA folks holding a PA reciprocated non resident license got screwed as well.



    Title 18 Pa.C.S. ß 6109

    (k) Reciprocity.--(1) The Attorney General shall have the power and duty to enter into reciprocity agreements with other states providing for the mutual recognition of a license to carry a firearm issued by the Commonwealth and a license or permit to carry a firearm issued by the other state. To carry out this duty, the Attorney General is authorized to negotiate reciprocity agreements and grant recognition of a license or permit to carry a firearm issued by another state.


    (2) The Attorney General shall report to the General Assembly within 180 days of the effective date of this paragraph and annually thereafter concerning the agreements which have been consummated under this subsection.

  9. #19
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    Default Re: Delaware reciprocity. This is something people going into Delaware need to be aw

    I just sent an email to the Delaware Attorney General respectfully requesting clarification on this update. I'll keep you all posted.

  10. #20
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    Default Re: Delaware reciprocity. This is something people going into Delaware need to be aw

    INTERESTING .... I just went to the page linked in the OP again and the line

    “As of September 23, 2017 Delaware will no longer honor non-resident Concealed Carry Permits issued by any jurisdiction.”
    is missing now??? I guess they were getting too many inquiries about it and removed it. Hopefully it was a mistake and is gone for good.

    Last edited by soberbyker; February 15th, 2017 at 08:53 PM.

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