CZ-52 or Nagant M1895 - info on values/desirability without import marks

[carrguy1]

I've got leads on both a CZ-52 and Nagant M1895 without import marks. I know that surplus/C&R type stuff is generally more desirable and valuable without import marks (maybe more so for more popular items like K98 mausers and similar). Does the same apply to these two pistols? What about in combination with the condition of the gun? What I mean is the Nagant is pretty well worn, not much finish left, and stained metal possibly from cleaned rust. Is an ugly Nagant with no import mark more desirable or valuable than a pretty, refinished one with an import mark?

I'm not 100% sure the CZ-52 does not have an import mark but the guy is telling me he doesn't see one (not that they're hard to find) and he sent pictures of all markings he could find. I've done a little bit of research on these and it is a military model (r.i.d. stamp) and has been arsenal refinished (v.o.z. stamp). It has also been blued like I've read many were later in life, although I prefer the original gray finish. It also has what seems to me to be a low serial number for the year, 3 digits. I'm not sure if that does anything for value. So is a CZ-52 that's been refinished and blued with no import mark more desirable or valuable than say an original gray finish one with an import mark?

I know some of you might just say it comes down to whatever I prefer most (personally I like the original gray CZ and a pretty refinished Nagant and import marks don't matter too much to me) but I'm just looking for any information, opinions, etc. as to what would be more valuable or collectible for these. Thanks for your input.

[wellcraft]

To most collectors a refinished gun loses any additional value it may have had compared to a gun with original finish. I wouldn't pay any more money for a refinished gun than I would for a non refinished gun with import marks. Collectors do desire non import marked guns but depending on the gun it may or may not add a premium to the selling price. I'm not sure about the value of the nagant but between the two I would buy the nagant just because I think they are a much more interesting pistol.

[zachomega]

Have you ever shot either of these guns?

The nagant is inaccurate and has possibly the worst trigger pull I've felt. Kind of like a worse double action pull on a p38...except the p38 has cool history, a good single action pull, uses cheap ammo,etc...
The only time I had a cz52 in my hands, it was unusable as the rollers had locked up. Instead I shot my Romanian tokarev...which was also a piece of junk.
Your mileage may vary but that is my experience.
-Zach

[R L Suehr]

If you plan on enjoying shooting them, get the CZ. As was said above the nagant revolver has the worst trigger pull on anything I've ever fired. I considered buying one when they were sub $100 a few years ago, but not at the prices they want now. They have an interesting action that is unique, but that's all they have going for them.
The CZ 52 on the other hand is extremely pleasant to shoot and surprisingly accurate even with the miniscule sights it has. Ammo is cheaper and way easier to find for it also vs the 1895. I don't know what values are on one that isn't import marked, I don't think I've ever seen one actually. The refinishing would probably offset that in collectors eyes though. I wouldn't pay a huge premium for it.

[39flathead]

A cleaned Nagant?
Even without an import mark, worth less than a common refurb IMO unless it has something else going for it.

A blued CZ52?
I'd bet the blues ones out there were done up by the importer to try to scrape a little more cash out of otherwise parts guns.
No import marks?
If the blue job was done later, they may have been buffed right off if they were light to begin with.
No blued CZ52 should be devoid of import marks.

My opinion as a collector?
Pass on both.

My opinion as a shooter?
Buy them if they are cheap, as in -$150 for the Nagant and -$250 for the CZ.

[carrguy1]

I have never shot either of these. They are just both on my C&R want list so I kind of keep my eye open for them. I don't need either of them and won't pay more for them than I'm comfortable paying even if I think they might be worth it. It's more of a "wait for a deal that may never come" than "want to get them ASAP." That being said I know that over time prices will only go up and likelihood of a deal decreases.

I'm not very concerned with the trigger pull on a Nagant as I don't see myself shooting it much. It's more for my modest collection. I would probably want to shoot the CZ at least once in a while but, again also for the collection.

I try to do at least a little research on anything I'm interested in and from what I've read the refinishing, refurbishing, bluing, or whatever you want to call it was done in Czechoslovakia mostly in the 70s. I'm not saying any of the blued ones couldn't have been done later but if that was an actual program the Czechs did and at least half if not more of what I see are blued I'd like to guess most of them were done there (especially since the one I was looking at has the VOZ stamp mentioned below). Several web sites list the following about the refurbishing program:

In the late 1970s many vz52 pistols were found to be worn. A refurbishing program was initiated, and it included the following:
New barrels installed and numbered to the pistols
Pistols refinished by dipping in a hot blue solution
Small worn parts replaced
Loose pin holes tightened by staking
One to four punch marks put on the sight rib to indicate accuracy, one being best
The letters VOZ (military repair plant) plus the last two digits of the year (of re-work) stamped above the trigger. The number following VOZ, usually number 1, identifies the plant.



So I'm guessing most of the blued ones out there were done before importation and therefore before any import marks so I suppose it could be possible that a Czech arsenal refurbished and blued gun could have been brought in without a mark. I believe I read import marking was started in general in the 80s but I could be off on that. Note that these same web sites seem to provide proof that disproves the mention about the accuracy test.

Thanks for the opinions, guys.

[robert slabaugh]

CZ52 is loads of fun to shoot, accurate but snappy recoil. Don't dry fire them, fragile firing pin. Lots of stuff available for them, as in hardened rollers and firing pins. Never shot a Nagant.

[39flathead]

I'm thinking CZ52's didn't come into the country until the 90's.

I suppose one could have been brought in by a US serviceman stationed in Germany that he obtained through a trade.

I bought dozens of CZs in the mid 90's from several different suppliers, I never had a blued one.
I know it's anecdotal, but I was a gunshow and surplus hawk back in the early 90's when piles of this stuff was coming in, the blued ones were rather scarce if my memory serves me.

Now, did guns get past the importer without getting stamped?
Sure did.
I personally know of guns bought by employees of Springfield Sporters back in the day who made sure their rifles and Ballister Molinas were not stamped while down in the dungeon.


Maybe I'm totally off base here, it just seems strange that most CZs were phosphate finished or painted, to have the arsenal blue rebuilt ones just seems counterintuitive considering all the other CZ military arms.


Either way, if your info is correct, a blued one means it was rebuilt, and that's a huge killer IMO as far as value.

[robert slabaugh]

No import marks on my CZ52 and it is blue. Bought it at a gun show in Tucson 7 or 8 years ago.

[Hodgie]

My votes for the 1895 since they have a big historical presence through several major wars and many conflicts. They are fun to shoot, pretty easy to tune, and an interesting conversation piece.