Gettysburg Gun Control debate - PA Mayors Association Convention

[WhiteFeather]

Here is the orginal article along with lots of other pro and anti-gun stories in the monthly (Aug 2008) Allegheny County Sportsmen's League Legislative Committee Report

http://acslpa.org/n-legislative/n-le...ee_reports.htm

PA Mayors Association Convention
Gun Control Takes Center Stage

On July 18th the Allegheny County Sportsmen's League legislative committee chairman and Firearms Owners against Crime chairman, Kim Stolfer, made a presentation to the annual gathering of the Pennsylvania mayor's held in Gettysburg Pennsylvania. The crux of this meeting was initially to discuss Representative David Levdansky's controversial legislation that would have made it a crime to not report a lost or stolen gun. We were offered the opportunity to present the opposing viewpoint.

Once representative Levdansky discovered that we were presenting information in opposition to his position he canceled his attendance at this event and arranged for alternative representation, Chad Ramsey the national field director for the Brady campaign to prevent gun violence (formerly known as handgun control Inc.)

Obviously representative Levdansky has dropped all the appearance of actually believing his position on the private ownership of firearms is not deeply flawed. By arranging for the representation and presentation of his position on this legislation through communication with an anti-gun organization that is avowed enemy of gun owners and sportsmen clearly illustrates how far afield this legislator has gone.

Our presentation was well received and well documented and the mayors in attendance were a receptive audience that showed their acceptance and understanding of our message by the significant applause at the end of our presentation. The representative from the Brady campaign to prevent gun violence did not receive the same accommodation or level of appreciation.

[WhiteFeather]

I took the day off and traveled with Kim Stolfer and two other Firearm Owners Against Crime (FOAC) volunteers to attend the debate and lend our support of the cause we are so passionate about. Here are a couple of personal observations I wanted to make so you can understand what is at stake and how far the anti-gun people will go to achieve the goal of disarming everyone.

The debate was scheduled for 11:30 well we got there about 2 hours early and found a pro-gun vendor that suggested we set up a table and pass out information during meeting breaks.

During the several of the meeting breaks the pro gun 24”x36” poster (done by PAFOA member PAUL) was instrumental in drawing some mayors over to our table and had several positive discussions about firearm ownership and problems with criminals in their cities.

About ½ hour before the scheduled debate we saw Chad Ramsey coming, and Chad came over to our table and started reading PAUL’s poster but didn’t say anything. We waited the for appropriate time and Kim introduced himself. Well after the niceties were exchanged the PRE debated started almost immediately after the paid anti-gun representative started singing the praises and opportunity that the Heller decision created for enacting more so called “common sense” gun laws.

I Wish this heated debate was filmed, you all would have loved it. Kim wiped the floor with all the usual hollow anti-gun arguments promoted by groups like Chad is paid to lobby for, laws that make gun owners into unintended criminals with no criminal intent on their part. (many PAFOA post cover this problem).
When had Chad Ramsey had enough of getting slammed by Kim and losing the pre-debate, Chad, beat red face at this point says “wooh Kim save this for the debate with the mayors” I say loudly “WHY? WE engage anyone, anytime to expose the big lie about gun control some how = crime control”

We beat Chad ear about its all about criminals that is the real problem and not guns
We finally got him to admit we have a criminal control problem and not a gun control problem. What was really funny when HE finally said it out loud, that we need to control criminals and not the hardware we all quit talking immediately. Dead silence like you flipped a light switch off.

Chad says “why did you all stop talking?” and a puzzled look came over his face.
I left his statement hang in an uncomfortable minute in silence. I said “you finally have admitted the real truth of the problem we have a criminal control problem, not a gun control problem”

After that remark Chad flustered, soon broke contact and walked away.


In the official debate before the mayors association both sides where given about 20 minutes to present their arguments. Chad Ramsey went first and received polite applause when he finished . The majority of his time was spent singing the praises of the supreme courts Heller decision. How it was now legal to enact local and state “common sense” gun laws, and how no one wants to take away people hunting firearms, the in general concept why do hunters need gun capable of more than one shot nonsense sort of crap. No documentation, nothing in writing was submitted to mayors to support the anti-gun position just emotional and more feel good, we have to do something proposals to stop guns from killing people

Chad also sang the praises of ANTI-GUN Rep David Levdansky’s lost and stolen amendment. It was funny listening to paid anti-gun professional lobbyist, supporting Rep Levdansky the so called “sportsmen pal” allegedly a hunter. Well at least Levdansky always sends photos of him dressed in orange to gun owners back in his district, claiming to represent sportsmen best interest as a fellow hunter defending their sporting rights. (read some of the post in

When Kim got up and spoke, If Chad thought he had it bad in the pre debate with Kim.
Chad was not ready for this, Kim cited and provided documentation from numerous sources stating everything that the anti-gun side offers DOSEN’T WORK, has no effect on reducing crime anywhere enacted and doesn’t address the criminalal element . Several times Chad was very physical upset over what Kim was saying and started to get up at one point to interrupt Kim and the president of the mayor association prevented him with hand gestures. It was quite funny watch this guy squirm to Kim statements

After both sides presented their positions, a question and answer session period ensued, No one asked anything from the anti-gun side. Kim took several questions and gave detail answers to the mayors. Chad jumped in and made several comments to Kim’s statements, still Kim presentation dominated the mayor’s attentions.

After the ending of the debate session Kim was swamped with several Mayors engaging him personally, No one took the opportunity to talk with Chad.

So the president of the PA Mayors Association I guess felt bad for Chad because no mayors wanted to chat with him after the debate and tried to play piece maker and brought Chad over to me.
The mayor Encouraged us to hake hands and try to work out our differences.
I said I have no problem working with anyone that wants to focus on the real problem, the human factor, criminal element of crime, not a hardware problem.


While still shaking hands with Chad I asked him how come in all of the interviews over the years, no where has he NEVER, EVER mention criminals as the problem, just guns are the root cause everything bad happening. He says that’s not true, I said I have read many articles that he was quoted in and he NEVER has he said it once. Chad remark how my statement was not true, because its how the media cherry picks quotes to suit there purpose. Chad tried to redirect by saying he could find numerous public statements made by Kim Stolfer taken out of context. I said highly doubt that, still I said I will give you that one, but how come on your own web site and WHERE you exercise TOTAL and FULL CONTROL to publish or say anything have want have you NEVER EVER SAID THAT on any of your numerous public media releases?

Chad was like a deer caught in the headlights of a rushing car with my comment and others that I did not detail here. Thankfully for Chad, Kim came over to save him from me. Kim goes to the president of the mayor association and Chad and says “is everything Ok? “ What I did not know at the time, that one of the other FOAC volunteers said you better get over to save Chad from me before a fist fight breaks out, I guess it really was looking that bad.

With this break in the action Chad looks at his watch and says uncomfortably he got to leave right now, doesn’t say goodbye or anything and just leaves.

I wish this public or private debate were allowed to be video taped, IT would have been worth just to expose the anti-gunners flawed comments and watch Kim Stolfer dominate the battle of ideas. It sure was enjoyable to engage a highly paid professional lobbyist from the other side and watch his hollow anti-gun failed policy arguments get crushed like a empty beer can under the wheels a Abrahams main battle tank..

[gf45acp]

Great report, thank you. Glad it want so well!

[JDePietro]

Bravo good job!

I wish he had an Army of Kim and yourself. I have had the pleasure of meeting both of you and I wish I could be on the battle front along side such great men.

Thank you for passing this on and more so for your fight and part in the argument.

[autotech6506]

good job! you finnaly got one of the anti's to admit the real problem! Now we need to do that x10,000,000. rep comming.

[Mtbkski]

Great write up. Thanks for the great job you guys are doing.

Any chance of seeing the Poster that you had set up that drew them all in?

[gnbrotz]

[ihunt49]

Very nicely done! THANK YOU for doing what you and all the pro-gun people have done, did today and will be doing in the future. It makes me proud to be on the same side as you guys.

[Qtrborecrazy]

Thank you all for taking the time out to attend the Mayors association convention and telling our side of the story in a manner they understand. As for Lev-ban-sky and his hired goon, I`m glad you kicked thier buts, send them both packing.

Qtrborecrazy

[MRMATT]

Was the dip-shit mayor of Philadelphia in attendance?