Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #91
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    Default Re: Mossberg 14" PGO

    Quote Originally Posted by Kramer View Post
    Well it looks like a SBS or an AOW, which require NFA registration. Will law enforcement, if you are stopped or confronted, know or believe you that the shockwave is not NFA, but a "firearm"? Regardless if it is shoulder fired or not, it looks like a shotgun and takes the same shells as one, they will probably treat it like one.

    This is not a frustrating thread, it's a thread about a firearm being questioned on a technical basis and if you run into the wrong person you will have an interesting day.
    Agreed. LE is often not as informed as we would hope, and they would likely respond as if it's an unregistered SBS or 'sawed off shotgun' simply because of the ammunition type. For that reason, I would not carry it loaded in a vehicle. Sure, someone found with one in a vehicle will likely win out in the end, but might have to go through being arrested, firearm confiscated, posting bail because charges might be filed, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by jamf View Post
    I got a shockwave at rural king in Connellsville this morning for $350. They had just put it on the shelf.
    That's a good deal. Most preorders from online vendors are $379-$389, so even with sales tax and if there's a fair PICS charge, you're saving a few $. No Rural King here in the east though.

  2. #92
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    Default Re: Mossberg 14" PGO

    Quote Originally Posted by Kramer View Post
    Well it looks like a SBS or an AOW, which require NFA registration. Will law enforcement, if you are stopped or confronted, know or believe you that the shockwave is not NFA, but a "firearm"? Regardless if it is shoulder fired or not, it looks like a shotgun and takes the same shells as one, they will probably treat it like one.

    This is not a frustrating thread, it's a thread about a firearm being questioned on a technical basis and if you run into the wrong person you will have an interesting day.
    No, it looks more like a DD:

    26 U.S. Code § 5845(f) Destructive device

    The term “destructive device” means (1) any explosive, incendiary, or poison gas (A) bomb, (B) grenade, (C) rocket having a propellent charge of more than four ounces, (D) missile having an explosive or incendiary charge of more than one-quarter ounce, (E) mine, or (F) similar device; (2) any type of weapon by whatever name known which will, or which may be readily converted to, expel a projectile by the action of an explosive or other propellant, the barrel or barrels of which have a bore of more than one-half inch in diameter, except a shotgun or shotgun shell which the Secretary finds is generally recognized as particularly suitable for sporting purposes; and (3) any combination of parts either designed or intended for use in converting any device into a destructive device as defined in subparagraphs (1) and (2) and from which a destructive device may be readily assembled. The term “destructive device” shall not include any device which is neither designed nor redesigned for use as a weapon; any device, although originally designed for use as a weapon, which is redesigned for use as a signaling, pyrotechnic, line throwing, safety, or similar device; surplus ordnance sold, loaned, or given by the Secretary of the Army pursuant to the provisions of section 4684(2), 4685, or 4686 of title 10 of the United States Code; or any other device which the Secretary finds is not likely to be used as a weapon, or is an antique or is a rifle which the owner intends to use solely for sporting purposes.
    Attorney Phil Kline, AKA gunlawyer001@gmail.com
    Thanks to all who attended my Firearms Law Workshops this year!

  3. #93
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    Default Re: Mossberg 14" PGO

    Quote Originally Posted by GunLawyer001 View Post
    No, it looks more like a DD:

    26 U.S. Code § 5845(f) Destructive device

    The term “destructive device” means (1) any explosive, incendiary, or poison gas (A) bomb, (B) grenade, (C) rocket having a propellent charge of more than four ounces, (D) missile having an explosive or incendiary charge of more than one-quarter ounce, (E) mine, or (F) similar device; (2) any type of weapon by whatever name known which will, or which may be readily converted to, expel a projectile by the action of an explosive or other propellant, the barrel or barrels of which have a bore of more than one-half inch in diameter, except a shotgun or shotgun shell which the Secretary finds is generally recognized as particularly suitable for sporting purposes; and (3) any combination of parts either designed or intended for use in converting any device into a destructive device as defined in subparagraphs (1) and (2) and from which a destructive device may be readily assembled. The term “destructive device” shall not include any device which is neither designed nor redesigned for use as a weapon; any device, although originally designed for use as a weapon, which is redesigned for use as a signaling, pyrotechnic, line throwing, safety, or similar device; surplus ordnance sold, loaned, or given by the Secretary of the Army pursuant to the provisions of section 4684(2), 4685, or 4686 of title 10 of the United States Code; or any other device which the Secretary finds is not likely to be used as a weapon, or is an antique or is a rifle which the owner intends to use solely for sporting purposes.
    You are going by definition and apparently you have never physically seen or fired a "Witness Protection" series shotguns, which are usually registered as an AOW. They look exactly the same as the shockwave. Keep that in mind in respect to law enforcement.

    AOW



    SBS (mine)



    shockwave


  4. #94
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    Default Re: Mossberg 14" PGO

    Quote Originally Posted by Kramer View Post
    You are going by definition and apparently you have never physically seen or fired a "Witness Protection" series shotguns, which are usually registered as an AOW. They look exactly the same as the shockwave. Keep that in mind in respect to law enforcement.

    AOW



    SBS (mine)



    shockwave

    its length of 26"+ exempts it from aow, but Nothing but their mood keeps it from being a DD is my point and what i believe Gunlawyer was getting at.

  5. #95
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    Default Re: Mossberg 14" PGO

    What's the overall length of the Witness Protection? As stated above, 26" is the magic measurement.

  6. #96
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    Default Re: Mossberg 14" PGO

    I think the witness protection is a 12" barrel and therefore 24" OAL. Not totally sure though.
    "America is all about speed. Hot, nasty, badass speed." -Eleanor Roosevelt, 1936

  7. #97
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    Default Re: Mossberg 14" PGO

    Quote Originally Posted by GunLawyer001 View Post
    Perhaps the issue is that it's pretty close to being a DD.
    Thanks, if I heard 'shotgun' one more time, I was ready to... complain some more.

  8. #98
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    Default Re: Mossberg 14" PGO

    Mossberg submitted a sample of the Shockwave to the ATF Tech Branch, and they stated that it was
    a firearm under the GCA, but not a firearm inder the NFA. So at this time, it is not an AOW and was not classified
    as a DD by the Tech Branch.

  9. #99
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    Default Re: Mossberg 14" PGO

    Quote Originally Posted by sawgunner73 View Post
    Mossberg submitted a sample of the Shockwave to the ATF Tech Branch, and they stated that it was
    a firearm under the GCA, but not a firearm inder the NFA. So at this time, it is not an AOW and was not classified
    as a DD by the Tech Branch.
    That's certainly relevant, but the Streetsweeper, USAS-12, front grips on TEC-9 pistols, and the Akins Accelerator were also non-NFA . . . until ATF changed its mind.
    Attorney Phil Kline, AKA gunlawyer001@gmail.com
    Thanks to all who attended my Firearms Law Workshops this year!

  10. #100
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    Default Re: Mossberg 14" PGO

    This is my sbs with the shockwave. This is so close to that thing it's not even funny


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