AK Building offer / Need your ak Built?

[USMC3531]

While you can't manufacture a receiver for profit, I'm not so sure that there's anything particularly unlawful about taking parts from a non-prohibited PA resident, assembling them on a rifle receiver, and then giving the assembled gun back, UNLESS it's done for profit. I'd need to look into it before rendering an actual opinion.

Where people got into trouble before, was where they set up "build parties" where "80% receivers" were machined using someone's CAD/CAM machine, and money changed hands. The process of programming a milling machine to turn a blank into a receiver, for money, was deemed to be "in the business".

Handguns would be different. Doing it for profit would be different. Gunsmithing for extra cash is "in the business". If someone can show me where a person got into trouble for assembling parts on an excise-tax-paid rifle receiver and giving it back without compensation to a non-prohibited resident of the same state, in compliance with all state transfer laws, I'd welcome the info.

There could be ITAR ramifications, but I believe (someone can check this) that you also have to be "in the business" before even the new lower ITAR threshold kicks in.

My understanding of a standard AK build is that there's not a lot of machining. You have to press the barrel in. You may need to either tap some holes or peen some rivets. Parts kits often require removal of scrap. But building a gun on a serialized complete receiver in the manner described, is not what got folks in trouble with ATF.

Again, this is not the final word on this, I'm open to citations to the contrary. I'm between dinner and some family stuff now, so I gotta run.

I think it may come down to how much "potential risk" you are willing to accept. while it may be completely legal as long as no money changes hands itd be hard to prove it either way. IMO posting an "ad" on a public forum and building for a complete stranger is different than helping your buddy. along with the new "guidance" as what is gunsmithing vs manufacturing (pertaining to Itar) its just to much of a gray area for me.

[mcarroll1987]

That escalated quickly

[GunLawyer001]

I think it may come down to how much "potential risk" you are willing to accept. while it may be completely legal as long as no money changes hands itd be hard to prove it either way. IMO posting an "ad" on a public forum and building for a complete stranger is different than helping your buddy. along with the new "guidance" as what is gunsmithing vs manufacturing (pertaining to Itar) its just to much of a gray area for me.

While I agree that firearms are not a risk-free legal area, the fact is that the OP was pretty careful to set out legal parameters; no money, 100% receiver. That avoids the 2 main traps of "being in the business" and "manufacturing".

That being said, I'm assuming that the OP is sincere. The first thing that ATF would do, is send a PM trying to get him to accept cash, whether it's for some special tooling or special finish or maybe a couple of builds, something where it would be reasonable to pay a little, the way you'd hand your buddy a couple bucks to pick up some ammo at the gun show for you.

Entrapment is a frequent tool. There's a story that ATF went to a dealer at a gun show, ATF had a perfectly legal Uzi carbine for sale, at a bargain price. The dealer bought it, perfectly legally, and took possession. Then ATF said "oh, I also have this short MG barrel that you can have for free, here." The ATF plant walked away, leaving the dealer in possession of a "constructive SBR". The dealer promptly sold the short barrel to another dealer, within a minute or so.

VERY shortly thereafter, different ATF agents made a beeline for the dealer, looking for the carbine and the short barrel.

That's the level of entrapment in which feds are willing to engage.

So if the OP sincerely wants a hobby project, for an in-state gun owner, I don't see anything unlawful there. If cash changes hands, if state lines are crossed, if too many imported parts go into the project, then there are issues.

[Gunsnwater]

Why walk the line? I don't get it. How do know they wouldn't send a prohibited guy over or have a prohibited guy post the offer? Maybe Josh could send a letter for clarification? Yes as stated no laws broken. Suppose dude drops off a case of beer? People need to do their own work. Instruction is different, guidance. I'm just not comfortable smithing for someone else. Plus what is your liability is things don't go as planned? Real manufacturers have some federal protections.

[GunLawyer001]

Why walk the line? I don't get it. How do know they wouldn't send a prohibited guy over or have a prohibited guy post the offer? Maybe Josh could send a letter for clarification? Yes as stated no laws broken. Suppose dude drops off a case of beer? People need to do their own work. Instruction is different, guidance. I'm just not comfortable smithing for someone else. Plus what is your liability is things don't go as planned? Real manufacturers have some federal protections.

What the OP offered is not facially in violation of existing statutes. Nothing is risk-free, you can get in trouble offering to drive the neighbor's kids to school. Doesn't make it illegal, which is what a number of posts here claimed.

[mcarroll1987]

Guys I was not trying to make this a huge deal.

Was just trying to maybe help someone out and have something to do to get through the winter blues.

I do appreciate the input and clarification though.

If I can help a fellow gun owner and someone who is earlier in the learning process then I am, I still would be interested in doing that.

[GunLawyer001]

Guys I was not trying to make this a huge deal.

Was just trying to maybe help someone out and have something to do to get through the winter blues.

I do appreciate the input and clarification though.

If I can help a fellow gun owner and someone who is earlier in the learning process then I am, I still would be interested in doing that.

It's always useful to hash out the limits on what we as free citizens are still allowed to do.

[RockIsland]

It's always useful to hash out the limits on what we as free citizens are still allowed to do.

Plus, somebody has to be the test case and keep you busy.


Joking aside, I agree.

[GunLawyer001]

Plus, somebody has to be the test case and keep you busy.


Joking aside, I agree.

I had nothing to do with that Erie park incident, so I didn't make a dime off it.

[RockIsland]

I had nothing to do with that Erie park incident, so I didn't make a dime off it.

We may be better now off if you did.

Or possibly if no one did.

Too late now, damage is done.